scs787 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 30. Chicago Bears (32) PB – 28th, RB – 27th, PEN – 30th Stud: I never thought I’d see the day where not only would J’Marcus Webb (-0.8) not be the weak link on this line, but also be the most consistent performer. He took a huge step forward this year in becoming an adequate left tackle. You can win football games with them. Dud: Take your pick. Ultimately it has to be the man who is on the path to ‘Bustville’, Gabe Carimi (-10.1). The former first-round pick does get push in the run game, but he’s horribly overmatched when he gets on his heels. That’s a horrible habit for an offensive tackle who earned his late benching. Summary: They don’t make life easy for Jay Cutler and they make their running backs earn every yard. However you measure them this line just isn’t good enough, to the point where the best performers are the guys who just don’t get beat with regularity. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...ffensive-lines/ I want better than adequate at LT but Webb deserves a shot somewhere on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...ffensive-lines/ I want better than adequate at LT but Webb deserves a shot somewhere on the line. Im not surprised that we aren't last but just imagine if the line was just avg what forte and Cutler can do. Forte already avgs over 4 ypc with that line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I would give up anything to be able to draft Joeckel or Fisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...ffensive-lines/ I want better than adequate at LT but Webb deserves a shot somewhere on the line. He will start or be the swing tackle. No way he gets cut. He and Carimi are both 4 years from their prime. I truly believe if Carimi's knee is better, he will show up with about 15 more pounds of needed weight in is legs and ass. and thus be vastly improved on his anchor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 He will start or be the swing tackle. No way he gets cut. He and Carimi are both 4 years from their prime. I truly believe if Carimi's knee is better, he will show up with about 15 more pounds of needed weight in is legs and ass. and thus be vastly improved on his anchor. Agreed on all aspects. I don't know where at but I expect both to be on the line next year...Unless Carimi doesn't show up stronger and bombs in camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Agreed on all aspects. I don't know where at but I expect both to be on the line next year...Unless Carimi doesn't show up stronger and bombs in camp. I heard last year because of his injury, it limited his off season workouts. Hopefully he gets his shit together this off season. Thats why we need to resign Scott and then let Carmi take his job away. We just have to have options if people we have dont get better. I also think Brown with the off season can pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...ffensive-lines/ I want better than adequate at LT but Webb deserves a shot somewhere on the line. We went from 32 to 30.....the Broncos went from 30 to 4.... I want that jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 We went from 32 to 30.....the Broncos went from 30 to 4.... I want that jump. That's the effect Manning has on a offense. I would truly be happy if we broke into the top half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 We went from 32 to 30.....the Broncos went from 30 to 4.... I want that jump. And not a single draft pick was used on the OL. It doesn't look like they added a single guy on the OL. I guess the above poster is right. EDIT- nevermind, Koppen was signed after being released on the last day of training camp. So Koppen at C and they moved the backup C to RG and the rest of the line was the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 And not a single draft pick was used on the OL. It doesn't look like they added a single guy on the OL. I guess the above poster is right. EDIT- nevermind, Koppen was signed after being released on the last day of training camp. So Koppen at C and they moved the backup C to RG and the rest of the line was the same They were bad the year before because of Tebow. Teams were allowed to stack the box out of zero fear that Tebow would burn them. He sucked out against us at a time we were sucking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Interesting reading. I wasn't so much interested in our rankings as much as the the rankings of some of the FA OL I saw on that list. Bushrod...not so great. Levitre pretty good. Andre Smith...pretty good. I also noted some of the other top ranked Oline on their respective teams weren't what I'd call household names. Talent can be found and developed outside the top 20 picks. We just haven't done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...ffensive-lines/ I want better than adequate at LT but Webb deserves a shot somewhere on the line. I disagree with the notion that Webb was anything better than below average this year. Maybe on the verge of average, but not really. The metric they use is not explicitly broken down, but one can assume that Webb's score of -0.8 is 0.8 worse than average. And that does not "deserve" a spot on the OL. That's what Bears fans have become - ready to reward below average or average because we're so used to seeing complete garbage from the OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I disagree with the notion that Webb was anything better than below average this year. Maybe on the verge of average, but not really. The metric they use is not explicitly broken down, but one can assume that Webb's score of -0.8 is 0.8 worse than average. And that does not "deserve" a spot on the OL. That's what Bears fans have become - ready to reward below average or average because we're so used to seeing complete garbage from the OL. Webb is trending up. I know that makes you nauseous, but it's true. He went from a horrible LT to a slighly below average LT. That's with him lined up next to two of the worst OG's in the league. If the trend continues with the skillset he possesses, he should be average to above average this season. That's not bad, especially if he moves to the right side or gets a good OG next to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Webb is trending up. I know that makes you nauseous, but it's true. He went from a horrible LT to a slighly below average LT. That's with him lined up next to two of the worst OG's in the league. If the trend continues with the skillset he possesses, he should be average to above average this season. That's not bad, especially if he moves to the right side or gets a good OG next to him. I think you just wrote what I wrote but reworded it. Trending up? Agreed. But it's hard to go down from "pretty much the worst starting offensive lineman in the NFL." He was horrible; now he's below average. That's pretty much what I said. I still dislike him as a player though because I think he's been given all the opportunities in the world when others have not. It was one of the things that bugged me about Lovie and staff. Webb never should have been starting to begin with, much less handed the LT role before training camp. Having said all that, he's trending up, but he still needs a replacement. He's a good backup, not a guy you want protecting your franchise QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 He's a good backup, not a guy you want protecting your franchise QB. Ain't that the truth?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Ain't that the truth?! It's a sad state of desperate affairs when Bears' fans are supporting a guy who is below average in his best year, and has actively participated in potentially ruining the best passing QB the Bears have ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 It's a sad state of desperate affairs when Bears' fans are supporting a guy who is below average in his best year, and has actively participated in potentially ruining the best passing QB the Bears have ever had. How do trends usually work with 24 year old tackles? They usually get better until they are 28. For someone who rates slightly worse than average, Webb is showing that he CAN contribute. He's worth keeping. I'm not calling for him to keep his job if he hasn't earned it. I'm just calling for people to look past him being put in a in a position he should not have been in. It easy to hate a guy that was the worst tackle in the league 2 years ago that didn't deserve his position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I disagree with the notion that Webb was anything better than below average this year. Maybe on the verge of average, but not really. The metric they use is not explicitly broken down, but one can assume that Webb's score of -0.8 is 0.8 worse than average. And that does not "deserve" a spot on the OL. That's what Bears fans have become - ready to reward below average or average because we're so used to seeing complete garbage from the OL. Not explicitly broken down? It's a a play by play rating, how much more broken down do you want? I was watching some clips from games last year.... Aldon Smith- 5 sacks, 3 of those were on Gabe Carimi, 1 was on Jason Campbell who held the ball forever, and one was on Webb. Clay Matthews in GB- 3 sacks, 2 were on Webb, 1 was a stunt inside where Spencer couldn't stop him. Matthews at CHI- 2 sacks, both stunts or loops as the commentator called it He was struggling with these guys but he was literally getting no help. How hard it is to put a TE on Matthews or Smiths side when playing them? These guys are elite sack artists and they're going 1 on 1 vs J'Marcus Webb. Oh and... Jared Allen in Min- 0 sacks Jared Allen in Chi-0 sacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Not explicitly broken down? It's a a play by play rating, how much more broken down do you want? I was watching some clips from games last year.... Aldon Smith- 5 sacks, 3 of those were on Gabe Carimi, 1 was on Jason Campbell who held the ball forever, and one was on Webb. Clay Matthews in GB- 3 sacks, 2 were on Webb, 1 was a stunt inside where Spencer couldn't stop him. Matthews at CHI- 2 sacks, both stunts or loops as the commentator called it He was struggling with these guys but he was literally getting no help. How hard it is to put a TE on Matthews or Smiths side when playing them? These guys are elite sack artists and they're going 1 on 1 vs J'Marcus Webb. Oh and... Jared Allen in Min- 0 sacks Jared Allen in Chi-0 sacks Yawn. How many times does it need to be said? It's infuriating for someone to post such nonsense, yet it happens year after year after year. You're just following in the long line of this topic. Sacks do not equate to how well an OLineman performs. The measure of his performance is also not just sacks+hits+pressures. As for the ratings, I'd say they are pretty well done considering the Bears are near last. But I don't see where it's broken down play-by-play, other than where they tell you they did it. I'd be willing to bet that one could easily refute or scrutinize their methodology for capturing the data. This is apparent in the fact that when I did the play-by-play breakdown during the preseason (and charted it in Excel), I came up with a rating that several others (who did not do a play-by-play breakdown) disagreed with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Whatever man you're obviously set with your opinion on him. Can't wait to hear you complain when he's on the line next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Not explicitly broken down? It's a a play by play rating, how much more broken down do you want? I was watching some clips from games last year.... Aldon Smith- 5 sacks, 3 of those were on Gabe Carimi, 1 was on Jason Campbell who held the ball forever, and one was on Webb. Clay Matthews in GB- 3 sacks, 2 were on Webb, 1 was a stunt inside where Spencer couldn't stop him. Matthews at CHI- 2 sacks, both stunts or loops as the commentator called it He was struggling with these guys but he was literally getting no help. How hard it is to put a TE on Matthews or Smiths side when playing them? These guys are elite sack artists and they're going 1 on 1 vs J'Marcus Webb. Oh and... Jared Allen in Min- 0 sacks Jared Allen in Chi-0 sacks One at least one of the Matthews sacks Webb and whoever LG we had at the time double teamed the DT while Matthews held back for a second. Then Matthews rushed the edge and Webb never left the double team to pick him up. How much more help does he need to read a simple play like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Sacks do not equate to how well an OLineman performs. The measure of his performance is also not just sacks+hits+pressures.As for the ratings, I'd say they are pretty well done considering the Bears are near last. But I don't see where it's broken down play-by-play, other than where they tell you they did it. I'd be willing to bet that one could easily refute or scrutinize their methodology for capturing the data. This is apparent in the fact that when I did the play-by-play breakdown during the preseason (and charted it in Excel), I came up with a rating that several others (who did not do a play-by-play breakdown) disagreed with. Your spreadsheet came up with Chris Williams as the starting left tackle. It spreaks for itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 One at least one of the Matthews sacks Webb and whoever LG we had at the time double teamed the DT while Matthews held back for a second. Then Matthews rushed the edge and Webb never left the double team to pick him up. How much more help does he need to read a simple play like that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l5uI550OVw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dqtpspoupE I'm not seeing the play you described....If you watch these videos you'll notice it's almost always just him vs. Matthews on an island. With Matthews speed you've gotta have some extra protection in there. Don't let him set a wide edge because you're gonna get burned no matter who you are (you'll see Joe Staley get burned for 2 sacks amongst others) The blocking scheme has got to be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Yawn. How many times does it need to be said? It's infuriating for someone to post such nonsense, yet it happens year after year after year. You're just following in the long line of this topic. Sacks do not equate to how well an OLineman performs. The measure of his performance is also not just sacks+hits+pressures. As for the ratings, I'd say they are pretty well done considering the Bears are near last. But I don't see where it's broken down play-by-play, other than where they tell you they did it. I'd be willing to bet that one could easily refute or scrutinize their methodology for capturing the data. This is apparent in the fact that when I did the play-by-play breakdown during the preseason (and charted it in Excel), I came up with a rating that several others (who did not do a play-by-play breakdown) disagreed with. Well lets see the stats on the breakdown you did on Webb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yawn. How many times does it need to be said? It's infuriating for someone to post such nonsense, yet it happens year after year after year. You're just following in the long line of this topic. Sacks do not equate to how well an OLineman performs. The measure of his performance is also not just sacks+hits+pressures. As for the ratings, I'd say they are pretty well done considering the Bears are near last. But I don't see where it's broken down play-by-play, other than where they tell you they did it. I'd be willing to bet that one could easily refute or scrutinize their methodology for capturing the data. This is apparent in the fact that when I did the play-by-play breakdown during the preseason (and charted it in Excel), I came up with a rating that several others (who did not do a play-by-play breakdown) disagreed with. How do you think they come up with the data in the first place? Just because they don't list every snap every player has ever taken doesn't mean they don't analyze play-by-play footage before coming up with a score. PFF is contracted with several NFL teams that trust their data enough to use for evaluation purposes. They actually work with real NFL people. So you can say that you could scrutinize their data, but at the same time, keep in mind that there are teams in the league right now that use that information to some degree. Football isn't a science, so no matter who's doing what, everything that's put out there should not be looked at as the "Be all end all." However, I would venture to say that when it comes to advanced statistics and player analysis, you'd be hard pressed to find better, more reliable information out there on the internet, than STATS inc. or PFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.