scs787 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 It's funny because I've been the one tooting Bushrods horn the most around here but just last night I saw something that makes me agree with balta.... From Walterfootball.... Jermon Bushrod run blocks well, but he can't pass protect at all. He surrendered four sacks in 2012, but that number would've been much higher if Drew Brees didn't release the ball so quickly. Yup, if this is true, balta's right....I started out down on this guy, then he made the pro bowl so I thought I was wrong and I really wanted him, now count me down him again. The Saints whole line could be going through the Brees effect. but...With Trestmans west coast offense I think the Line and Cutty will benefit from shorter passes resulting in Cutler throwing quicker passes. That said we may not have to spend a ton of money on the line.....color me confused on what I want on the line. I'm on the Webb train right now...at LT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I've been saying this all along on Bushrod. Might he end up here because of Kromer and might he better than Webb? Sure. But I'm not going to replace dogs*** with below average for $5.5m/year just because. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I've been saying this all along on Bushrod. Might he end up here because of Kromer and might he better than Webb? Sure. But I'm not going to replace dogs*** with below average for $5.5m/year just because. I was with you until he was named to the pro bowl so I looked deeper and saw he was injured so I thought that explained his low rating and now after reading that his low, but still positive rating was due to being good in the run but bad in the pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I've been saying this all along on Bushrod. Might he end up here because of Kromer and might he better than Webb? Sure. But I'm not going to replace dogs*** with below average for $5.5m/year just because. What I keep stressing is that...a great system isn't going to take Webb his rookie year or Carimi last year and make them into good blockers, but a good QB who knows how to deal with the blitz, and a decent OC who gives his line the help he needs, can take an average blocker and get a very good performance out of him (at least against most teams). I have no problem with Bushrod, but I also think Webb is a useful asset right now. I think that the Bears did everything they possibly could to make Webb look awful last year, and I think anyone other than a HOF caliber LT would have failed in that spot. Some depth would still need to be acquired, but Bushrod-Louis-Garza-Carimi-Webb might be a workable line. I don't know that I trust Carimi, and Webb would be switching positions, and Louis is coming back from injury...so there needs to be some guys found somewhere who can actually step in midseason, but that's a plausible setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Some depth would still need to be acquired, but Bushrod-Louis-Garza-Carimi-Webb might be a workable line. Don't forget a draft pick, if we can get Bushrod for LT, and a G in the first or second, that line would look even better. Jones would be a nice flex pick because he could slide to Center when Garza retires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Don't forget a draft pick, if we can get Bushrod for LT, and a G in the first or second, that line would look even better. Jones would be a nice flex pick because he could slide to Center when Garza retires. I have difficulty seeing the Bears not giving Louis another shot, he's performed well and they'll be able to keep him at a reasonable cost. Carimi...personally I'd imagine they'd give him another shot , but that's one where I can see myself being wrong since it's a new coach and a GM that didn't draft him. In both of those cases though, there needs to be depth. I'm not sure if that's Scott or not; if not, a 2nd round guard would be a solid addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 What I keep stressing is that...a great system isn't going to take Webb his rookie year or Carimi last year and make them into good blockers, but a good QB who knows how to deal with the blitz, and a decent OC who gives his line the help he needs, can take an average blocker and get a very good performance out of him (at least against most teams). I have no problem with Bushrod, but I also think Webb is a useful asset right now. I think that the Bears did everything they possibly could to make Webb look awful last year, and I think anyone other than a HOF caliber LT would have failed in that spot. Some depth would still need to be acquired, but Bushrod-Louis-Garza-Carimi-Webb might be a workable line. I don't know that I trust Carimi, and Webb would be switching positions, and Louis is coming back from injury...so there needs to be some guys found somewhere who can actually step in midseason, but that's a plausible setup. Its not what the meatheads wanna hear but I agree....Furthermore, I wouldn't mind Webb at LT and spending the money on a TE or hell why not a WR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Its not what the meatheads wanna hear but I agree....Furthermore, I wouldn't mind Webb at LT and spending the money on a TE or hell why not a WR? I think the Bears need to go with what they have at WR...with the exeception of finding a speedy 4th WR either in the late rounds of the draft or FA. I really want to have Marshall, Jeffrey, and Bennett as the top 3 WR's. The TE spot...could use some help, but I'm not sure what they want to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I think the Bears need to go with what they have at WR...with the exeception of finding a speedy 4th WR either in the late rounds of the draft or FA. I really want to have Marshall, Jeffrey, and Bennett as the top 3 WR's. The TE spot...could use some help, but I'm not sure what they want to do with it. I'd like to see Rodriguez as an H-Back with a guy like Jared Cook at TE. An impact WR isn't needed you're right, but could you imagine Mike Wallace being the speedy guy? But ya, putting big money into a WR could hurt us in the future both financially and with the development of Jeffery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I'd like to see Rodriguez as an H-Back with a guy like Jared Cook at TE. An impact WR isn't needed you're right, but could you imagine Mike Wallace being the speedy guy? But ya, putting big money into a WR could hurt us in the future both financially and with the development of Jeffery. The oline cannot be ignored and needs the most amount of attention. I would prefer going that route through the draft. If by chance Lane Johnson is there it's a no brainer and if not, we should hope to move down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I dont disagree per ser, Just seems like a waste. arguably the best OG in league was a 4th (Nicks) and personally I think Lance Louis was close behind him, he has a 6th or 7th? We need an impact ILB - If we get Skov in 2nd, Id shit myself. A guy i also like, but much later, is Kiko Alonso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKDdQV-ZW4Y HAAAAAAAHAHAHA. Louis close to Nicks?! HAAAAHAHAHA! Big difference between blocking adequately and destroying your opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 What I keep stressing is that...a great system isn't going to take Webb his rookie year or Carimi last year and make them into good blockers, but a good QB who knows how to deal with the blitz, and a decent OC who gives his line the help he needs, can take an average blocker and get a very good performance out of him (at least against most teams). I have no problem with Bushrod, but I also think Webb is a useful asset right now. I think that the Bears did everything they possibly could to make Webb look awful last year, and I think anyone other than a HOF caliber LT would have failed in that spot. Some depth would still need to be acquired, but Bushrod-Louis-Garza-Carimi-Webb might be a workable line. I don't know that I trust Carimi, and Webb would be switching positions, and Louis is coming back from injury...so there needs to be some guys found somewhere who can actually step in midseason, but that's a plausible setup. I understand the point, and there aren't many who were anti Lovie/Tice more than I, but it just sounds like another excuse for a guy who was one of the worst starting OL in all of football over the stretch of three years. Same excuse used while Martz was in Chicago. You think other teams dont run very similar offenses? Or maybe even worse protective schemes? Webb is not good, and the only way he will ever be a good blocker is in a phone booth.he is an asset as a backup and spot starter, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 HAAAAAAAHAHAHA. Louis close to Nicks?! HAAAAHAHAHA! Big difference between blocking adequately and destroying your opponent. I believe he was comparing the draft rounds the players were selected in, not their performance on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Don't forget a draft pick, if we can get Bushrod for LT, and a G in the first or second, that line would look even better. Jones would be a nice flex pick because he could slide to Center when Garza retires. Heck having Jones on the team would just make sense if for nothing else because of his knack for levity and a fiery disposition when playing. The second characteristic reminding me of a young Olin Kreutz. Would be good to see an OL team leader like that again. That and Id still love to see he and Jay in a shoving match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I think a change in scheme is a huge factor in all this. Couple that with an upgrade in personnel and i wonder how much better than 30th could we honestly get. Im thinking if we do both we could get into top half of league. Which alone could do wonders for that offense. I also would want to look at available WRs. I love Jeffrey and bennett but both have dealt with injuries. 1 interesting name now is Mr. salsa. Cruz from giants. NY has said there paying more attention to nicks. I don't see it happening with him being a RFA but a guy to keep an eye on at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I understand the point, and there aren't many who were anti Lovie/Tice more than I, but it just sounds like another excuse for a guy who was one of the worst starting OL in all of football over the stretch of three years. Same excuse used while Martz was in Chicago. You think other teams dont run very similar offenses? Or maybe even worse protective schemes? Webb is not good, and the only way he will ever be a good blocker is in a phone booth.he is an asset as a backup and spot starter, nothing more. Oh stop it jason, he wasn't that bad last year, the first 2 years yes but he wasn't bad last year. In a west coast offense where Jay gets the ball out quicker he'll look like a pro bowler ala Jermon Bushrod who is a bad pass protector as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Oh stop it jason, he wasn't that bad last year, the first 2 years yes but he wasn't bad last year. In a west coast offense where Jay gets the ball out quicker he'll look like a pro bowler ala Jermon Bushrod who is a bad pass protector as well. I am not sure that one comment makes a career when referring to Bushrod. I have read everything I can about him and although Pass Pro. is not his strong suit he is not terrrible at it. Last year at the begining of the year he played bad but as he got healthier he played better. I think he will be an upgrade. Webb improved, but to what extent? Now hes not terrible? I am not sure that is a complement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I think a change in scheme is a huge factor in all this. Couple that with an upgrade in personnel and i wonder how much better than 30th could we honestly get. Im thinking if we do both we could get into top half of league. Which alone could do wonders for that offense. I also would want to look at available WRs. I love Jeffrey and bennett but both have dealt with injuries. 1 interesting name now is Mr. salsa. Cruz from giants. NY has said there paying more attention to nicks. I don't see it happening with him being a RFA but a guy to keep an eye on at least We only have enough money to buy one expensive FA and a couple of other additions. I still want the OL addressed first, and then maybe we have enough to get Wheeler-LB and maybe Avery-WR(speed guy) I would be stasified with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 We only have enough money to buy one expensive FA and a couple of other additions. I still want the OL addressed first, and then maybe we have enough to get Wheeler-LB and maybe Avery-WR(speed guy) I would be stasified with that. I agree it would damn near impossible. More than likely only way possible is to back load contract knowing that many of our expensive stars will gone and i believe that in 2014 the cap will have a significant increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I am not sure that one comment makes a career when referring to Bushrod. I have read everything I can about him and although Pass Pro. is not his strong suit he is not terrrible at it. Last year at the begining of the year he played bad but as he got healthier he played better. I think he will be an upgrade. Webb improved, but to what extent? Now hes not terrible? I am not sure that is a complement. I've also read on a Saints message board that he's not that great, it's the Brees effect. Much like how the Broncos line went from 30th to 6th without really upgrading the line because of Manning. The West Coast Offense will make the whole line look much better, no matter who's on it. Through week 15 Brees was pressured 117 times, and sacked 13% of the time...Cutty was pressured 113 times and sacked 24% of the time. The difference I believe is in the Saints dumping it of to a RB which they did 200+ times while the Bears only dumped it off 83 times. I believe next year we'll see that number a lot closer to the 200 number than the 83 which will alleviate a ton of the hits Jay takes and will make the line look better than they are. Brees also had .07 seconds less than Cutler had to throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted February 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Oh stop it jason, he wasn't that bad last year, the first 2 years yes but he wasn't bad last year. In a west coast offense where Jay gets the ball out quicker he'll look like a pro bowler ala Jermon Bushrod who is a bad pass protector as well. Again, so why would they pay some guy like Bushrod all that money if he will only be a touch better than Webb? Financially and logically, it makes little sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Again, so why would they pay some guy like Bushrod all that money if he will only be a touch better than Webb? Financially and logically, it makes little sense. Which is why I'm now against signing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Again, so why would they pay some guy like Bushrod all that money if he will only be a touch better than Webb? Financially and logically, it makes little sense. I think there is quite a bit of difference , I dont think there abitlities are close. We can look at this and have an opinion, I think the actions of Emery will determine, who is good and who isnt. The biggest thing for me, we literally did almost nothing to upgrade and got basically the same results. We need to inject two new OL and I prefer 3 to gain options if Webb, doesnt get better, Louis dont come back from injury, Carmi sucks again. I really dont care who it is but we need people that we at least perceive to be better. I prefer Clady-OT, Wallace-WR, and Bennett-TE but we that aint going to happen. So am just trying to be realistic with my expectations. Bushrod-is an upgrade, if we got Wheeler- will play better than Urlacher and be cheaper, Avery-WR cheaper and a speed guy. Maybe as you have stated we cant afford, but we will not fix all our needs with our first 3 draft choices. Your actually pretty sharp on these things, give me a realistic view of our fix. (please leave Webb off of that scenario.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I think there is quite a bit of difference , I dont think there abitlities are close. We can look at this and have an opinion, I think the actions of Emery will determine, who is good and who isnt. The biggest thing for me, we literally did almost nothing to upgrade and got basically the same results. We need to inject two new OL and I prefer 3 to gain options if Webb, doesnt get better, Louis dont come back from injury, Carmi sucks again. I really dont care who it is but we need people that we at least perceive to be better. I prefer Clady-OT, Wallace-WR, and Bennett-TE but we that aint going to happen. So am just trying to be realistic with my expectations. Bushrod-is an upgrade, if we got Wheeler- will play better than Urlacher and be cheaper, Avery-WR cheaper and a speed guy. Maybe as you have stated we cant afford, but we will not fix all our needs with our first 3 draft choices. Your actually pretty sharp on these things, give me a realistic view of our fix. (please leave Webb off of that scenario.) if you're not including Webb than you're replacing the whole line. He was the best we had last year so if you think we need to replace him then you should think we have to replace them all. It's as simple as that to me. If you wanna move him to RT fine but you can't put him on the bench IMO/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 if you're not including Webb than you're replacing the whole line. He was the best we had last year so if you think we need to replace him then you should think we have to replace them all. It's as simple as that to me. If you wanna move him to RT fine but you can't put him on the bench IMO/ So lets say we start Webb again at LT, now instead of being rated 30th in OL play we move up to 28th. Webb goes from a -.08 rating to a +1.3 rating. What do we do now give him another chance the following year because he got better? It is quite simple, the line wasnt good enough, we need new players, and have options when people arent any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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