OLineman and TEs

[Stinger226]

Which is why I see Webb as our LT next year.

that would be a mistake, but the oline hasnt been much since Cutler got here. We really need to replace him.

[scs787]

With another guy who's gonna take a year or 2 to develop??

 

There are a few guys who may be upgrades in the FA market but they're also gonna be in high demand. Beatty, Albert and Dunlap(?) could be better than Webb but the first 2 are gonna get a hefty pay day...something which we can not afford more than likely.

 

[adam]

Eifert backed up his hype and play with a great combine, he is a first round talent. He was near the top in almost every event.

 

Ertz was one of the worst jumpers, but was decent all around, he seems more like a 2nd round pick.

 

Escobar only excelled in the 3-cone, other than that, nothing stood out, and he was a lot slower than expected. I can't see him going before the 3rd, so I say 3rd-5th.

 

To me, beside Eifert, the others that stood out were McDonald all around, and then Furstenburg and Stoneburner for everything but their BP.

[Stinger226]

With another guy who's gonna take a year or 2 to develop??

 

There are a few guys who may be upgrades in the FA market but they're also gonna be in high demand. Beatty, Albert and Dunlap(?) could be better than Webb but the first 2 are gonna get a hefty pay day...something which we can not afford more than likely.

Honestly, do you consider him a NFL starter worthy of his job. I am not considering because we dont have the money to probably replace him. I am talking about in his career, and improvement every year, at this point, could he start on any other team this side of AZ. I really doubt. Usually players his age took there step last year, and he did improve, but to what the 24th best LT, not good enough.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Here's an interesting factoid I just read via twitter.

 

OT Terron Armstead also posted a vertical leap of 34.5 inches. To put that in perspective, it matched WR A.J. Green's Combine vert in 2011.

 

[adam]

Here's an interesting factoid I just read via twitter.

Armstead is a physical freak, but who knows if that translates to on field performance. He is an intriguing prospect though.

[Stinger226]

Armstead is a physical freak, but who knows if that translates to on field performance. He is an intriguing prospect though.

who is the DT that jumped out of a pool? he didnt last long. It allways bothers me that you look at tape all year and see a football player, and then he doesnt have great times, or jumps and the athletes now become the best football players. I know it is a composite of a lot of information but the Combine is given to much stock in players abilities. Hopefully Emery finds the best football players.

[balta1701-A]

Honestly, do you consider him a NFL starter worthy of his job. I am not considering because we dont have the money to probably replace him. I am talking about in his career, and improvement every year, at this point, could he start on any other team this side of AZ. I really doubt. Usually players his age took there step last year, and he did improve, but to what the 24th best LT, not good enough.

Yes, he could start for a significant number of teams in the league. GM's don't have the luxury of paying attention only to what a player did 2 years ago when they're able to contribute right now.

 

A great example is Andy Levitre. He was on a line that has simply been awful the last few years, but people here still want him. People aren't blaming him for the line being bad.

 

Here's a discussion including the PFF numbers.

I'll just get this out of the way right now; J'Marcus Webb no longer sucks. If you're still holding onto Webb as the poster child for Chicago garbage offensive linemen, then you are mistaken. Webb's first year as RT was crap, his first year at LT was terrible, but in his 3rd year he improved to become an average NFL tackle. Does he still need to get better? Oh hell yea, but we're talking about a 24 year old player (DOB: 8-8-88) about to enter his 4th year in the NFL.

 

Now by no means am I trying to celebrate his mediocrity, but if you're blindly proclaiming 'Webb sucks' then I have a right to question your football acumen. I watched Webb very carefully this year, and those brief flashes of good play that I saw in years one and two were more prevalent in year three. He was more consistent in his technique, and the laziness I saw in years past didn't show up as much in 2012.

 

What really hurt him his first two years was not knowing his responsibilities from play to play. He would sometimes block inside and let an edge rusher go around him. He would take the guy in front of him instead of fanning outside. He would be unaware of where or when his help was coming. I didn't see these mental mistakes as much in his 3rd season. He's still committing too many penalties, but even that aspect of his game has declined. He was flagged 14 times in 2011 and 8 in 2012.

 

In my Sackwatch series, I had Webb allowing five sacks on the season, Pro Football Focus had him allowing seven. PFF had ten tackles allowing more than Webb's seven sacks, and nine tackles equaling his seven allowed. To take it a step in the other direction, there were eight tackles that allowed just one less sack than Webb in 2012. Do all of those 27 of those tackles suck? In QB hits allowed Webb ranked 39th, and in QB hurries Webb was 19th. He was also the 17th most penalized tackle. Again not great rankings, but far from sucking.

 

When Pro Football Focus grades their players, they consider anything worse than a -1.0 to be a negative grade, anything better than a +1.0 to be a positive grade, and grades between those two ranges are average. Their color coded tables are full of greens (positive), reds (negatives), and whites (neutral). J'Marcus Webb graded out with a -0.7 in 47th place, just one place below Jake Long and his -0.4. But if you peruse the WCG comment threads you'll find quite a bit of Bears fans pining for Jake Long and a multimillion dollar contract.

 

I mentioned Webb ascending from a crap player to an average player, and the PFF grades show that. in 2010 he had a -35.0, in 2011 he "improved" to a -16.2, and we already covered his -0.7 in 2012. Those are some fairly substantial strides. He improved by 18.8 after one year, and by 15.4 after two. Is it that far out of the realm of possibilities that he won't improve again?

 

To break down Webb's grade even further, I'll look at their weekly overall, pass blocking, and run blocking grades, which is 48 grades total, (16 games x 3). Of those 48 marks, he had 13 positive, 11 negative, and 24 neutral. Again, these aren't the numbers of a sucky player.

 

So after all this number crunching would I be OK if Webb was the starting left tackle in 2013? Yes and no. I think the Bears need to add a tackle either via free agency or the draft, let them compete, and may the best man win the job.

[scs787]

Honestly, do you consider him a NFL starter worthy of his job. I am not considering because we dont have the money to probably replace him. I am talking about in his career, and improvement every year, at this point, could he start on any other team this side of AZ. I really doubt. Usually players his age took there step last year, and he did improve, but to what the 24th best LT, not good enough.

 

 

I obviously do otherwise I wouldn't have spent the last few days defending him.

 

The bears decided it was a good idea to let him go 1v1 on Clay Matthews which lead to a bad game. Shocker.

 

 

 

[Guest TerraTor]

I obviously do otherwise I wouldn't have spent the last few days defending him.

 

The bears decided it was a good idea to let him go 1v1 on Clay Matthews which lead to a bad game. Shocker.

 

 

Its one thing to get beat by Matthews, but he got pushed around. Webb is the McClellin of the OL

[scs787]

Its one thing to get beat by Matthews, but he got pushed around. Webb is the McClellin of the OL

 

 

Pack fans have said the Bears are about the only team they haven't double team him. That tells you how bad the game plan was against him....You double team him like a normal team and he won't get pushed around....When you got a guy as explosive as Matthews who gets a head of steam before meeting Webb it's no surprise he gets pushed back.

[Stinger226]

I obviously do otherwise I wouldn't have spent the last few days defending him.

 

The bears decided it was a good idea to let him go 1v1 on Clay Matthews which lead to a bad game. Shocker.

I am sorry your on the Webb train, because it aint going anywhere but to a backup role.

[scs787]

Whatever man. like balta said, it's gonna be hard to convince the haters so it's pointless to even try.

 

How bout you guys address baltas last post.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I'm usually the one defending Webb, but I have to say that I would be surprised if they do not sign or draft his replacement this year, given the type of class that's available. If they don't, I hope they at least are able to add some good interior lineman that can hold their own. He has improved quite a bit in the last two years, but he is definitely replaceable if the right player comes along. Carimi is lucky he was a recent 1st round pick. We may be looking at his replacement come next year if his pass protection doesn't drastically improve.

[scs787]

He's replaceable, no doubt. Will it be hard to replace him, IMO yes. Which is why I think he'll be back next year. I also think he takes another step forward with some actual help on the line.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Last year the free agent market and draft class for offensive lineman was garbage, but this year it is about as good as it gets for both. It would be wise for the Bears to take advantage of this opportunity.

[Stinger226]

Whatever man. like balta said, it's gonna be hard to convince the haters so it's pointless to even try.

 

How bout you guys address baltas last post.

your more fun. It aint about being a hater, I WISH him success, just dont think he has it in him.

[scs787]

From what i see it's good, but it's very top heavy. The draft has 3 guys that are sure thing day 1 starters, and all 3 are said to be a lock to go in the top 15. In free agency you've got Albert and Beatty, then maybe Dunlap and Long as upgrades. I still stand by Bushrod not being much of an upgrade at his price.

 

Beatty is said to be a high priority for the Giants and it hasn't been set in stone that Albert won't be tagged/resigned. King Dunlap is a guy who was a backup but played well when Jason Peters went down with an injury. He's probably looking at a contract that's more in our price range if they do decide to grab a LT.

 

I'll stand by Webb though. I think if you put a better LG next to him and quit putting him out on an island he'll be just fine.

 

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

From what i see it's good, but it's very top heavy. The draft has 3 guys that are sure thing day 1 starters, and all 3 are said to be a lock to go in the top 15. In free agency you've got Albert and Beatty, then maybe Dunlap and Long as upgrades. I still stand by Bushrod not being much of an upgrade at his price.

 

Beatty is said to be a high priority for the Giants and it hasn't been set in stone that Albert won't be tagged/resigned. King Dunlap is a guy who was a backup but played well when Jason Peters went down with an injury. He's probably looking at a contract that's more in our price range if they do decide to grab a LT.

 

I'll stand by Webb though. I think if you put a better LG next to him and quit putting him out on an island he'll be just fine.

Beatty would be a nice pick-up. Albert likely won't be tagged since they'll use it on Bowe, which is retarded.

 

Don't forget about Vollmer. I know he's not a LT, but he's arguably the best RT in football.

[Mongo3451]

Its one thing to get beat by Matthews, but he got pushed around. Webb is the McClellin of the OL

 

That's complete BS. He was our strongest point of attack OL last year. Carimi backpeddled like a DB, yet you call out Webb. I am not a Webb fan either, but I saw him as the only OL on the team that improved. Everyone needs a team "whipping boy", but trust me Webb should no longer be it. Anyone who says otherwise is discrediting themselves.

[Stinger226]

That's complete BS. He was our strongest point of attack OL last year. Carimi backpeddled like a DB, yet you call out Webb. I am not a Webb fan either, but I saw him as the only OL on the team that improved. Everyone needs a team "whipping boy", but trust me Webb should no longer be it. Anyone who says otherwise is discrediting themselves.

Every thread that comes on here seems to always go to the OL, for good reason. In order for us to fix this, it wont be with big money players. I believe it will be with a drafted OG and a second tier LT. They want to resign Scott as a swing tackle, not the starter so that tells me Webb will be moved to RT to beat out maybe Carmi? or Scott? Or Carmi goes to RG, I suspect. Somebody brought up Dunlap, it will be someone like that for the LT spot, I suspect.

 

SO---new guy, Copper or (if were lucky)Warmack, Garza( who actually if starting to fall off,so I see a later round OC draft pick), Carmi or Louis, Webb or Carmi.

 

I believe this will be what we have to work with when the season starts this year. That will be with in our cap restraints, and hopefully improve the line. We still have Brown to develop, which maybe in a year move copper to OC and Brown takes over LG. I dont think we have a lot of options. But on the other hand, lets dream and say we draft Johnson/LT and sign Leverite/LG and get Barret Jones in the second. I like to dream but always come back to reality, it aint going to happen.

[jason]

Whatever man. like balta said, it's gonna be hard to convince the haters so it's pointless to even try.

 

How bout you guys address baltas last post.

 

Address what? A long, drawn out comment from some one (not sure where the comment originated) whose opinion differs with the vast majority of people who watched the Bears play football last year? I don't give a damn what PFF rating he has. He is not average. At best last year he was below average. And that's at best.

 

This revisionist history shit has to stop. It happens every year. It is almost like we need a separate part of the board that tracks a game by game board consensus for archival purposes whenever we get to the offseason, because this happens every year. During the season? Virtually no disagreement that he falls somewhere between horrible and below average. But afterwards, some schmucks at PFF put out a rating scheme and all the sudden the dude is average? BS.

 

Can he improve? It appears so. But I once worked really hard to dunk a basketball and never got much further than grabbing the rim. All indications were that my progress would lead to a dunk, but it never did. Webb could be at his dunking potential, and I don't like the idea of sacrificing Cutler for a FOURTH year in a row on a pet project 7th rounder just because he didn't suck bad enough to make us literally puke...like previous seasons.

[jason]

That's complete BS. He was our strongest point of attack OL last year. Carimi backpeddled like a DB, yet you call out Webb. I am not a Webb fan either, but I saw him as the only OL on the team that improved. Everyone needs a team "whipping boy", but trust me Webb should no longer be it. Anyone who says otherwise is discrediting themselves.

 

He wasn't the worst, but you can't use others' failures as his successes. He wasn't good either.

 

And BTW, I would say Garza and Louis easily had better years than Webb. And Carimi, overall, was pretty damn close to Webb...it's just that Carimi was Jekyll and Hyde between tuna dn pass blocking.

[scs787]

Says the guy who wants Gabe Carimi to be the LT... I'm sorry but if you put Webb next to a good LG (Cooper will do) then he will be an above average LT and it's really as simple as that. I'm gonna love when Webb is named the LT next year and we hear you have a heart attack on the board....Then stfu throughout the year when Webb plays well like he did in 75+% of his games last year.

 

It's not all about PFF either, you see reports popping up everywhere about how Webb improved or something about him not needing to be replaced. Dan Pompei or Biggs just recently said Webb had the inside track on LT....If he didn't improve why would he have the inside track?

 

 

[scs787]

He wasn't the worst, but you can't use others' failures as his successes. He wasn't good either.

 

And BTW, I would say Garza and Louis easily had better years than Webb. And Carimi, overall, was pretty damn close to Webb...it's just that Carimi was Jekyll and Hyde between tuna dn pass blocking.

 

 

I assume you mean run and pass blocking....Why would you want a guy who was a "jekyll" in the pass game to be the guy protecting Cutlers blindside??? That makes no sense at all.