ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Lastly...this is correct, kinda silly that a negative rating, no matter how miniscule (and it was miniscule), though. I will say if we don't have cap space to bring in...lets say jake long, then I think Webb is our guy. We will not draft a starter quality LT. Plus Webb will be much improved. It is his big pay day season, he knows if he produces then he will never have to worry about getting his next happy meal. I would be fine with it as long as we can draft Cooper rd1 and lets Jones rd 2. But knowing how Webb is, I wouldn't resign him and would hope we can land a LT next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I have to agree with scs787, I think Kromer will be a huge difference in our line play. Webb will be the one I watch closely after Kromer gets his hands on him. Carimi I beleive the 2nd year after a bad knee injury will he regain all his strength in that legg. His base was weak last year and he got better as the year went on. I think this year he will win out the right tackle spot. I see more of requirement of Guards at this point. 2 Guards that rock will help our tackles and are not that expensive. Center is another concern. Garza just aint cutting it and i dont think Edwin Williams will be the answer or Chris Spencer. So pick one up in the 3rd or 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 There is some suspicion the Chiefs might have tagged Albert in order to find a trade partner. Naturally the Bears are rumored to be at the top of that list but with no 3rd Rd pick this season, plenty of Oline spots to fix, several decent FA options, and limited cap space I don't see it. Maybe someone else will make the trade but I don't see the value in it for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I have to agree with scs787, I think Kromer will be a huge difference in our line play. Webb will be the one I watch closely after Kromer gets his hands on him. Carimi I beleive the 2nd year after a bad knee injury will he regain all his strength in that legg. His base was weak last year and he got better as the year went on. I think this year he will win out the right tackle spot. I see more of requirement of Guards at this point. 2 Guards that rock will help our tackles and are not that expensive. Center is another concern. Garza just aint cutting it and i dont think Edwin Williams will be the answer or Chris Spencer. So pick one up in the 3rd or 4th. Spencer is a FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 The WCO alone is gonna help the OL, even Jason just agreed to that. Adding a LG will make him better, another thing Jason has agreed with. True. True. But that's like saying a broken leg will get better with a sturdier shoe and lots of pain killers. The leg's still broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Kromer will fix Webb just like Tice was going to fix Webb. Stop. He is what he is. If they can figure out money for Long, do it. There will come a time when every WCO needs to go away from the 3-5 step drop and drop back, buy time and make a throw. I don't trust Webb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I have to agree with scs787, I think Kromer will be a huge difference in our line play. Webb will be the one I watch closely after Kromer gets his hands on him. Carimi I beleive the 2nd year after a bad knee injury will he regain all his strength in that legg. His base was weak last year and he got better as the year went on. I think this year he will win out the right tackle spot. I see more of requirement of Guards at this point. 2 Guards that rock will help our tackles and are not that expensive. Center is another concern. Garza just aint cutting it and i dont think Edwin Williams will be the answer or Chris Spencer. So pick one up in the 3rd or 4th. We praised Mike Tice for the improvement in our line play to the point we made him our offensive coordinator. Our o-line play continued to suck and he was fired. What does that tell you? By comparison, we start 3 linebackers. Basically 2.5 since one is on the bench in nickel downs. Lance Briggs is a perennial pro-bowler. Yet we worry about our linebacker depth. Meanwhile, of the 5 o-line starters, there is not one you can hang your hat on and say he'll be starting this year and next year. Not one. Getting to my point, Kromer can only do so much with a turd. We have very little talent on the o-line. He's not a magician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 We praised Mike Tice for the improvement in our line play to the point we made him our offensive coordinator. Our o-line play continued to suck and he was fired. What does that tell you? By comparison, we start 3 linebackers. Basically 2.5 since one is on the bench in nickel downs. Lance Briggs is a perennial pro-bowler. Yet we worry about our linebacker depth. Meanwhile, of the 5 o-line starters, there is not one you can hang your hat on and say he'll be starting this year and next year. Not one. Getting to my point, Kromer can only do so much with a turd. We have very little talent on the o-line. He's not a magician. Exactly. People want to make a lot about what he did for Brian de la Puente and Jermon Bushrod and to an extent Carl Nicks, but christ, how do we know those guys wouldn't have good elsewhere? It's not like Aaron Kromer is the only OC ever who coached an OL and 4th round-UDFA guys became good. Look at Seattle's OL- they have a guy from the 7th, 5th, 3rd, and 2nd (and a 1st). I bet if they had hired Tom Cable nobody here would be talking about him turning Webb into Jonathan Ogden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Exactly. People want to make a lot about what he did for Brian de la Puente and Jermon Bushrod and to an extent Carl Nicks, but christ, how do we know those guys wouldn't have good elsewhere? It's not like Aaron Kromer is the only OC ever who coached an OL and 4th round-UDFA guys became good. Look at Seattle's OL- they have a guy from the 7th, 5th, 3rd, and 2nd (and a 1st). I bet if they had hired Tom Cable nobody here would be talking about him turning Webb into Jonathan Ogden. While I agree with the turd analogy, I think you tend to exaggerate when you portray others expectations of the OL unit. Webb in particular. Starting with the assumption that we don't know what we can count on down the road. Do we want to blow it all up and start from scratch? The answer is yes of you want to lose. We only have the ability to address 2 maybe 3 OL positions this year. So do we start by replacing arguably our most promising , young and least expensive resource? The math and logistics are bad there. While we may want nice upgrades in improvement from all our OL, that's just never going to happen due to the talent margins in the NFL. The order of importance for our team is OG, OG, C, LT and RT in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 While I agree with the turd analogy, I think you tend to exaggerate when you portray others expectations of the OL unit. Webb in particular. Starting with the assumption that we don't know what we can count on down the road. Do we want to blow it all up and start from scratch? The answer is yes of you want to lose. We only have the ability to address 2 maybe 3 OL positions this year. So do we start by replacing arguably our most promising , young and least expensive resource? The math and logistics are bad there. While we may want nice upgrades in improvement from all our OL, that's just never going to happen due to the talent margins in the NFL. The order of importance for our team is OG, OG, C, LT and RT in my opinion. If we were a team with cap space, they would all be gone. We went from 32 nd to the 30th rated OL. LTs get drafted higher and get paid more, and there is a reason for that. Woulda coulda shoulda, we cant continue playing Russian roulette, you eventually lose the game. They cant fix all the problems in one year. SO- they have said they wanted Scott back as a swing tackle, wanted Louis back(injury ?). With Carmi here they probably have faith in him to be a lot better this year over last, due to his injury and not playing strong. So that tells me They expect Carmi to play RT, Louis to be the RG. Garza is at OC (diminishing returns). So we need a LT and LG. The probably exists we get the LG in the draft, so we need to find a LT somewhere. Hopefully we can find him in FAgency, if not, grab any players that upgrade the OLine and we try to work it out. Webb may be back , but cant be our first choice at that position, that tells us, we have the same mentality as last year and that wouldnt be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 If we were a team with cap space, they would all be gone. We went from 32 nd to the 30th rated OL. LTs get drafted higher and get paid more, and there is a reason for that. Woulda coulda shoulda, we cant continue playing Russian roulette, you eventually lose the game. They cant fix all the problems in one year. SO- they have said they wanted Scott back as a swing tackle, wanted Louis back(injury ?). With Carmi here they probably have faith in him to be a lot better this year over last, due to his injury and not playing strong. So that tells me They expect Carmi to play RT, Louis to be the RG. Garza is at OC (diminishing returns). So we need a LT and LG. The probably exists we get the LG in the draft, so we need to find a LT somewhere. Hopefully we can find him in FAgency, if not, grab any players that upgrade the OLine and we try to work it out. Webb may be back , but cant be our first choice at that position, that tells us, we have the same mentality as last year and that wouldnt be good. We agree in principle, just disagree on the how to do it. I'm willing to make a wager for fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Who's first year was in Tice's 4th year...When they gave up 35 sacks, a number at (09), near(12 with 38 sacks), or above (11 w/ 23).....Look I already said I was wrong for calling him horrible but from what I can tell he's not "great". I just think it's silly to "doubt" that he won't grow under a guy who's been touted to get the best out of his players. But this is getting retarded, I'm done...I'm not gonna argue about personal opinion over the next 50 days.... I'm done talking about Webb until some new news comes out about him....My thoughts are out there and it's obvious neither of our opinions are gonna change so there's no point in continuing. I think the thing that's frustrating to those of us in the anti-Webb camp is that you're so vehement in his defense, despite the fact that we all watched the games and know he wasn't average. No matter how many PFF "stats" get pulled out, the eye test tells a different story. And in that story, Webb was below average. He wasn't the worst starter in the league like previous seasons, but he still wasn't average either. And since it's just you, Webb's Mom, and probably a handful of people worldwide that are actually defending him, you're battle is drastically uphill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 We praised Mike Tice for the improvement in our line play to the point we made him our offensive coordinator. Our o-line play continued to suck and he was fired. What does that tell you? By comparison, we start 3 linebackers. Basically 2.5 since one is on the bench in nickel downs. Lance Briggs is a perennial pro-bowler. Yet we worry about our linebacker depth. Meanwhile, of the 5 o-line starters, there is not one you can hang your hat on and say he'll be starting this year and next year. Not one. Getting to my point, Kromer can only do so much with a turd. We have very little talent on the o-line. He's not a magician. First, let's clarify the "we" in your first sentence. "We" means "the Chicago Bears organization." As for we (i.e. this board), the same type of praise wasn't out there. And the promotion to OC was disapproved of by the majority of this board. What all that tells you is that the Bears front office doesn't/didn't know how to hire/promote coaches, and Lovie Smith was a large part of the problem. The rest of your post I agree with. We have 3 LBs, one of which is above average even in his "senior years" (Urlacher), another is a pro-bowler (Briggs), and the other is average (Roach). Meanwhile, out of 5 OLinemen, only two are average overall (Louis/Garza) and one of those guys is coming off a season-ending knee surgery. The others consist of a guy who can run block but can't pass block (Carimi), a player who just two years ago was called the worst OLineman in the NFL - and still is below average (Webb), and a bunch of camp fodder who may or may not make the roster because of how bad it is. Nobody is turning that mess into a success. Yet people want to upgrade the LB position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 We agree in principle, just disagree on the how to do it. I'm willing to make a wager for fun... Im all in, tell me what you have in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 First, let's clarify the "we" in your first sentence. "We" means "the Chicago Bears organization." As for we (i.e. this board), the same type of praise wasn't out there. And the promotion to OC was disapproved of by the majority of this board. What all that tells you is that the Bears front office doesn't/didn't know how to hire/promote coaches, and Lovie Smith was a large part of the problem. The rest of your post I agree with. We have 3 LBs, one of which is above average even in his "senior years" (Urlacher), another is a pro-bowler (Briggs), and the other is average (Roach). Meanwhile, out of 5 OLinemen, only two are average overall (Louis/Garza) and one of those guys is coming off a season-ending knee surgery. The others consist of a guy who can run block but can't pass block (Carimi), a player who just two years ago was called the worst OLineman in the NFL - and still is below average (Webb), and a bunch of camp fodder who may or may not make the roster because of how bad it is. Nobody is turning that mess into a success. Yet people want to upgrade the LB position? Urlacher was not above average last year. It would be hard to make the case, average. Since most people on here are into stats, I think he was the 45th best rated LB in the league last year. I am not sure 45 is the spot, but will have time to look it up later. He wasnt good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Im all in, tell me what you have in mind. How about a post eating crow and an acknowledgement of greater knowledge? It will be a tough pill for whoever loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 How about a post eating crow and an acknowledgement of greater knowledge? It will be a tough pill for whoever loses. Oh boy. What's the actual bet on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 First, let's clarify the "we" in your first sentence. "We" means "the Chicago Bears organization." As for we (i.e. this board), the same type of praise wasn't out there. And the promotion to OC was disapproved of by the majority of this board. What all that tells you is that the Bears front office doesn't/didn't know how to hire/promote coaches, and Lovie Smith was a large part of the problem. I don't remember commenting much on the Tice hire which means I probably didn't bother reading many comments. I spend over an hour a day in the car, most of which is spent listening to the SCORE. The media and most callers were in favor of the Tice hire. We may not know how to hire coaches, but when you burn through that many offensive coordinators, the problem is bigger than coaching. With Lovie's 4 offensive coodinators, chances are that one of them wouldn't suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Oh boy. What's the actual bet on It's not super clear. but in a nutshell, I think the OL should be built inside out and he thinks Left to right. It may not be winnable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 It's not super clear. but in a nutshell, I think the OL should be built inside out and he thinks Left to right. It may not be winnable. I agree that's gonna be tough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 How about a post eating crow and an acknowledgement of greater knowledge? It will be a tough pill for whoever loses. What you dont know about me is, I am able to completely humiliate myself, and not even break stride. What is the proposal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 It's not super clear. but in a nutshell, I think the OL should be built inside out and he thinks Left to right. It may not be winnable. So, if I got this right, we need guards and will be ok with our tackles? My proposal is we need a LT and LG. do I have this right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 So, if I got this right, we need guards and will be ok with our tackles? My proposal is we need a LT and LG. do I have this right. correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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