scs787 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 scs - Since you have ample time, would you be willing to do a play-by-play breakdown of what you believe happens? Give it a grade on each play. Use whatever scale you want (A-F, 1-10, whatever). Include N/A plays where you see fit. If you're willing to do this, I'll do the same over the weekend. I'd be interested to see whether your thoughts coincide with mine. Part of the problem on all this is "how" someone gets graded. How bout you give me a guideline so I'm not called biased or something silly like that. I mean I can go off my notes I have in front of me and come up with something but that probably wouldn't be good enough for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 At the end of the day he is the starting LOT of the Bears and as a fan of the team for 47 years I don't care what he did prior to getting here I'm going to root for him to keep DEs off of Cutler and actually make sight adjustments when the blitz is coming. So keep doing your research to talk negatively about what most think is a positive move that the team we root for has done. With it being rumored that the Bears are interested in resigning Louis and Scott it is obvious after review this GM and new staff think that this OL needs a facelift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 At the end of the day he is the starting LOT of the Bears and as a fan of the team for 47 years I don't care what he did prior to getting here I'm going to root for him to keep DEs off of Cutler and actually make sight adjustments when the blitz is coming. So keep doing your research to talk negatively about what most think is a positive move that the team we root for has done. With it being rumored that the Bears are interested in resigning Louis and Scott it is obvious after review this GM and new staff think that this OL needs a facelift. I did this in an effort to try to get some closure on Bushrod, not to talk negatively on him. Sadly I couldn't get that closure and remain skeptical on him. I said it a few times, I'm not gonna fully judge him of just this game I just wanted to see some tape to hopefully prove me wrong on all the negative things I've read and reiterated here. Trust me, I'm not trying to be negative man, I know it's coming across that way but I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Really wish I could find the bears game vs SF to compare....I honestly don't even remember much of the game I JUST WATCHED lol but I did right a note after every play. PFF has the pressures # at 10 for JB vs 8 for JW so based solely on that JW had the better game. That settles it 10 v 8. No other stats. So obvious JB sucks. Should have given $36M to JW instead. We should fire emery cuz its so clear to all of us SCS could do a much better job BTW scs I don't even have time to call my wife and kids much less watch an entire game while focusing solely on 1 player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 That settles it 10 v 8. No other stats. So obvious JB sucks. Should have given $36M to JW instead. We should fire emery cuz its so clear to all of us SCS could do a much better job BTW scs I don't even have time to call my wife and kids much less watch an entire game while focusing solely on 1 player. We've been through this, I'm unemployed there's no mystery here. I didn't watch the whole game I just watched the Saints possessions, no commercials or anything....Probably just an hour of film. It was one game, and I said I won't judge him off one game, both games were ugly. The both sucked against SF. When he wasn't getting help from Nicks or Stithcomb he was getting beat a lot. I'm not saying they should have gave that money to JW I'm saying they should have used that money to get him the same kind of help at LG JB got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I did this in an effort to try to get some closure on Bushrod, not to talk negatively on him. Sadly I couldn't get that closure and remain skeptical on him. I said it a few times, I'm not gonna fully judge him of just this game I just wanted to see some tape to hopefully prove me wrong on all the negative things I've read and reiterated here. I think really the only way to get the 'closure' you're looking for on Bushrod will be when the season starts. And if the scheme he played in NO is similar to what will be used in Chicago then maybe you'll get an idea of how good (or bad) he is. AND if he's paired up with a Guard that is capable of holding their own on the inside. All things as they are and from what I've 'heard', I'm just not sold on him as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I think really the only way to get the 'closure' you're looking for on Bushrod will be when the season starts. And if the scheme he played in NO is similar to what will be used in Chicago then maybe you'll get an idea of how good (or bad) he is. AND if he's paired up with a Guard that is capable of holding their own on the inside. All things as they are and from what I've 'heard', I'm just not sold on him as of yet. Frankly, if he knows Kromer's system well, that may be a good enough reason to bring him in, even if his performance last year wasn't up to par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 I did this in an effort to try to get some closure on Bushrod, not to talk negatively on him. Sadly I couldn't get that closure and remain skeptical on him. I said it a few times, I'm not gonna fully judge him of just this game I just wanted to see some tape to hopefully prove me wrong on all the negative things I've read and reiterated here. Trust me, I'm not trying to be negative man, I know it's coming across that way but I'm not. You picked a bad game, against the best team in the league, who are you trying to kid here? you have to look at a players career not pick games to back your allegations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 We've been through this, I'm unemployed there's no mystery here. I didn't watch the whole game I just watched the Saints possessions, no commercials or anything....Probably just an hour of film. It was one game, and I said I won't judge him off one game, both games were ugly. The both sucked against SF. When he wasn't getting help from Nicks or Stithcomb he was getting beat a lot. I'm not saying they should have gave that money to JW I'm saying they should have used that money to get him the same kind of help at LG JB got. Funny how u use PFF like its the bible and they disagree with you. According to PFF bushrod was avg that game against SF. He was graded a 0.0. And Webb wasn't just bad he was god awful according to PFF who graded Webb at -6.4(worst grade given) in our game against SF. But you only wanted to look at pressures lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Funny how u use PFF like its the bible and they disagree with you. According to PFF bushrod was avg that game against SF. He was graded a 0.0. And Webb wasn't just bad he was god awful according to PFF who graded Webb at -6.4(worst grade given) in our game against SF. But you only wanted to look at pressures lol We dont always agree, but you do have it in you to be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 We dont always agree, but you do have it in you to be cool. God damn why did u have to go there. Now I gotta change lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Funny how u use PFF like its the bible and they disagree with you. According to PFF bushrod was avg that game against SF. He was graded a 0.0. And Webb wasn't just bad he was god awful according to PFF who graded Webb at -6.4(worst grade given) in our game against SF. But you only wanted to look at pressures lol Not doubting it since I haven't seen it but where did you get Bushrods overal grade for that game? All I see is his -4.3 pass protection rating, I've said many times Bushrod is better in the run game. The difference between the 2 games as far as pass protection goes is of the 8 pressures Webb gave up 3 were sacks while of the 10 Bushrod gave up only 1 were sacks.. I believe this is a testament to Brees getting the ball out quicker than Cutler. If Bushrod was protecting for Cutler in the offense we ran last year it's a safe bet 2 or more of those pressures turn into sacks and his rating lowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Not doubting it since I haven't seen it but where did you get Bushrods overal grade for that game? All I see is his -4.3 pass protection rating, I've said many times Bushrod is better in the run game. The difference between the 2 games as far as pass protection goes is of the 8 pressures Webb gave up 3 were sacks while of the 10 Bushrod gave up only 1 were sacks.. I believe this is a testament to Brees getting the ball out quicker than Cutler. If Bushrod was protecting for Cutler in the offense we ran last year it's a safe bet 2 or more of those pressures turn into sacks and his rating lowers. I sent a msg via Twitter to PFF and that's what they responded with. So now your spinning the facts again to fit your hypothesis. Ever thought of running for a government office. U seem perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Not doubting it since I haven't seen it but where did you get Bushrods overal grade for that game? All I see is his -4.3 pass protection rating, I've said many times Bushrod is better in the run game. The difference between the 2 games as far as pass protection goes is of the 8 pressures Webb gave up 3 were sacks while of the 10 Bushrod gave up only 1 were sacks.. I believe this is a testament to Brees getting the ball out quicker than Cutler. If Bushrod was protecting for Cutler in the offense we ran last year it's a safe bet 2 or more of those pressures turn into sacks and his rating lowers. Your opinion will prove out or get blowed up, the key here is the powers that be think you are wrong, so it doesnt really matter what we think. You need to find something else to be supportive of. The Bear organisation believe differently than you and you keep trying to prove there wrong, just deal with it, YOUR WRONG, if he plays shitty, then at the end of the year you can wave a sword, but for now, you seem pretty petty on your views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Not doubting it since I haven't seen it but where did you get Bushrods overal grade for that game? All I see is his -4.3 pass protection rating, I've said many times Bushrod is better in the run game. The difference between the 2 games as far as pass protection goes is of the 8 pressures Webb gave up 3 were sacks while of the 10 Bushrod gave up only 1 were sacks.. I believe this is a testament to Brees getting the ball out quicker than Cutler. If Bushrod was protecting for Cutler in the offense we ran last year it's a safe bet 2 or more of those pressures turn into sacks and his rating lowers. Another thing your not looking at is # of pass plays when it comes to pressures. Let's ignore the sacks in this case so brees having quicker release means nothing. Campbell dropped back to pass 29 times and Webb allowed 8 pressures. That's 1 pressure per 3.6 drop backs. Bushrod allowed 10 pressures on 48 drop backs. Which is 1 pressure per 4.8 drop backs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Another thing your not looking at is # of pass plays when it comes to pressures. Let's ignore the sacks in this case so brees having quicker release means nothing. Campbell dropped back to pass 29 times and Webb allowed 8 pressures. That's 1 pressure per 3.6 drop backs. Bushrod allowed 10 pressures on 48 drop backs. Which is 1 pressure per 4.8 drop backs The fact is he is a better player, not great, but huge upgrade over what we had. IT WILL PROVE OUT, just watch the games and stay off the PFF site and you will gain our prespective on football players SCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I sent a msg via Twitter to PFF and that's what they responded with. So now your spinning the facts again to fit your hypothesis. Ever thought of running for a government office. U seem perfect No, I'm not spinning the facts, I said his pass protection grade was -4.3. I said I didn't see his overall grade. I feel like I'd make a good lawyer with these arguments lol, I'm still young, maybe I'll give it a shot. Your opinion will prove out or get blowed up, the key here is the powers that be think you are wrong, so it doesnt really matter what we think. You need to find something else to be supportive of. The Bear organisation believe differently than you and you keep trying to prove there wrong, just deal with it, YOUR WRONG, if he plays shitty, then at the end of the year you can wave a sword, but for now, you seem pretty petty on your views. It won't be proved out if they can do the same things the Saints and Drew Brees did. If Trestman can get Jay to get the ball out quicker and Kromer keeps giving Jermon help from the LG then he very well still could "look" like a pro bowler. I just think they could have done the same thing with Webb and he would have been on the same level.....It could be what balta said earlier and that the fact that Jermon already knows the system is worthy enough of signing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 No, I'm not spinning the facts, I said his pass protection grade was -4.3. I said I didn't see his overall grade. I feel like I'd make a good lawyer with these arguments lol, I'm still young, maybe I'll give it a shot. It won't be proved out if they can do the same things the Saints and Drew Brees did. If Trestman can get Jay to get the ball out quicker and Kromer keeps giving Jermon help from the LG then he very well still could "look" like a pro bowler. I just think they could have done the same thing with Webb and he would have been on the same level.....It could be what balta said earlier and that the fact that Jermon already knows the system is worthy enough of signing him. It doesnt matter, the BEARS didnt choose to listen to you, so we will never know if your right. I hope Webb plays well enough at RT so you can save some face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Another thing your not looking at is # of pass plays when it comes to pressures. Let's ignore the sacks in this case so brees having quicker release means nothing. Campbell dropped back to pass 29 times and Webb allowed 8 pressures. That's 1 pressure per 3.6 drop backs. Bushrod allowed 10 pressures on 48 drop backs. Which is 1 pressure per 4.8 drop backs Exactly! I take pff stats as just a small piece of evaluating. Like when fantasy football drafting, looking at projections. I still never take Stafford over Brady, because a stat said he had more yards. The kid from detroit would, but the other 11 guys would think he had lost it. Bushrod is not elite, but maybe in the 10-16 range of LT, Webb imo would be in the 24-30 range. The team improved and we at least go into camp with a RT battle and not two duds battling out the for the premier LT spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 It doesnt matter, the BEARS didnt choose to listen to you, so we will never know if your right. I hope Webb plays well enough at RT so you can save some face. I'm trying to save face..ugh you people don't understand me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I'm trying to save face..ugh you people don't understand me. I understand where you coming from, just feel your argument is no longer valid. THE BEARS PICKED BUSHROD, support him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Another thing your not looking at is # of pass plays when it comes to pressures. Let's ignore the sacks in this case so brees having quicker release means nothing. Campbell dropped back to pass 29 times and Webb allowed 8 pressures. That's 1 pressure per 3.6 drop backs. Bushrod allowed 10 pressures on 48 drop backs. Which is 1 pressure per 4.8 drop backs I have Bushrod getting help from Nicks or Stithcomb on 23 of those plays. Thats almost half where he was getting the help of another offensive lineman....Meaning in 25 drop backs while going 1v1 he gave up 10 pressures. Now I'm sure Webb got help from a TE or RB on a portion of those plays but it's not the help of one of the best LGs in the league or a 300 RT lined up at FB. My whole argument is basically Webb in the Saints system vs Bushrod in last year bears system. Not who's better. My point is if Webb got the kind of help Bushrod got he could be just as good. If they feel more comfortable with Bushrod in the system then fine, he's not making pro bowl LT money so I'm ok with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have Bushrod getting help from Nicks or Stithcomb on 23 of those plays. Thats over half where he was getting the help of another offensive lineman....Meaning in 25 drop backs while going 1v1 he gave up 10 pressures. Now I'm sure Webb got help from a TE or RB on a portion of those plays but it's not the help of one of the best LGs in the league or a 300 RT lined up at FB. My whole argument is basically Webb in the Saints system vs Bushrod in last year bears system. Not who's better. My point is if Webb got the kind of help Bushrod got he could be just as good. If they feel more comfortable with Bushrod in the system then fine, he's not making pro bowl LT money so I'm ok with it. Just let that argument go, they dont care what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I understand where you coming from, just feel your argument is no longer valid. THE BEARS PICKED BUSHROD, support him. Lol where'd my not go, I meant to say I'm not trying to save face. I will support him and think he'll do well since he's still gonna be in the same system with Kromer who made him look good with the protection he got. I just hope Jay can get the ball out in a quick fashion like Brees did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Lol where'd my not go, I meant to say I'm not trying to save face. I will support him and think he'll do well since he's still gonna be in the same system with Kromer who made him look good with the protection he got. I just hope Jay can get the ball out in a quick fashion like Brees did. I still think it would be best if you get a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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