jason Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 We have new people running the Bears and until they prove that they made mistakes I would prefer to let them do there job and will pat them on the back or condemn for those moves of which wont know the results for at least one year if now two. I have my opinion, right or wrong and they are acting upon what I think is the right thing to do. Its not that there are agreeing with me , I am just making an observation. You must be a young Bears fan to have such optimism. I'll continue to be pessimistic until proven otherwise. And that hasn't happened more than a few times in the last 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 He is full of himself....The coaches and the league seem to be more inline with my thinking than yours, so if Im a moron, what label show we put on you? Can you say "irony"? You don't seem to understand the concept of what the management is doing to this team. Sure they are trying to put their stamp on the team, but they are burning bridges in the process. There are other players on the team that are taking note; Peppers, Jennings, Tillman, Briggs....all players that no doubt had a strong bond to Urlacher. If it wasn't evident in their play on the field, look at the time when Urlacher's mother passed. The team chartered a jet to attend her funeral. As someone pointed out earlier, this WAS more a family enviornment. It appears that its trending away from that. The traditional values and pride that some fans have to this team are being whittled away. You say its time to move on and get new blood but at what cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 You must be a young Bears fan to have such optimism. I'll continue to be pessimistic until proven otherwise. And that hasn't happened more than a few times in the last 30 years. I have been watching the Bears since Dick Bukus and Gale Sayers got me interested. All football teams make bad decisions and good ones, in one year we will know whether this one was good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Can you say "irony"? You don't seem to understand the concept of what the management is doing to this team. Sure they are trying to put their stamp on the team, but they are burning bridges in the process. There are other players on the team that are taking note; Peppers, Jennings, Tillman, Briggs....all players that no doubt had a strong bond to Urlacher. If it wasn't evident in their play on the field, look at the time when Urlacher's mother passed. The team chartered a jet to attend her funeral. As someone pointed out earlier, this WAS more a family enviornment. It appears that its trending away from that. The traditional values and pride that some fans have to this team are being whittled away. You say its time to move on and get new blood but at what cost? I dont think you get it; If your Peppers making 16 mil this year, you might be sad that Brian is gone, but tomorrow you wont care, you are still making 16 mil this year. Peppers left Carolina for money, he didnt give the home team a discount because he has a lot of friends there. What the management is doing is trying to put together a football team that might go to the playoffs next year,THE WAY THEY WANT TO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Can you say "irony"? You don't seem to understand the concept of what the management is doing to this team. Sure they are trying to put their stamp on the team, but they are burning bridges in the process. There are other players on the team that are taking note; Peppers, Jennings, Tillman, Briggs....all players that no doubt had a strong bond to Urlacher. If it wasn't evident in their play on the field, look at the time when Urlacher's mother passed. The team chartered a jet to attend her funeral. As someone pointed out earlier, this WAS more a family enviornment. It appears that its trending away from that. The traditional values and pride that some fans have to this team are being whittled away. You say its time to move on and get new blood but at what cost? I dont think you get it; If your Peppers making 16 mil this year, you might be sad that Brian is gone, but tomorrow you wont care, you are still making 16 mil this year. Peppers left Carolina for money, he didnt give the home team a discount because he has a lot of friends there. What the management is doing is trying to put together a football team that might go to the playoffs next year,THE WAY THEY WANT TO, not doing what you or I want. If they end up putting together a team that wins something, we all wont care if Brian is gone. Thats life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 This couldn't be more wrong. So if the Bears offered Tillman a 2 year deal now, he'd say no? Would Marshall? They offered him, according to Urlacher, a better deal a week ago. Was that poor management by the Bears? How does this hamstring the Bears? They were going to take 2 LB's anyway. Did you want them going into 2013 with only Urlacher as an option at MLB? They just have to take one in round 1 now. I don't know what you're getting at with the Tillman and Marshall comments...they just don't make any sense. Apples and hammers. I wonder if you're willing to backtrack on the rest. The Bears NEVER offered Urlacher another offer. It was the 1yr/2m offer. Period. As for the hamstring, you point out exactly why they are hamstrung. Before they could have filled the hole with a FA or a mid-rounder. Then grabbed an UDFA and hoped he was a good backup. Now they don't have that flexibility. They'd be dumb if they didn't draft a LB in either the 1st or the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I have been watching the Bears since Dick Bukus and Gale Sayers got me interested. All football teams make bad decisions and good ones, in one year we will know whether this one was good or bad. That's genuinely surprising. If you've been watching that long I have no clue how you can be so optimistic. You must be one of those people who skips into work on Monday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 That's genuinely surprising. If you've been watching that long I have no clue how you can be so optimistic. You must be one of those people who skips into work on Monday morning. Watched them since Ed O, Billy Wade and the 1963 championship. And yes, I'm a Bear pessimist. But I do think that Url is not what he used to be. Did I want him back? Hell yes. But, as Ditka said, this too shall pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fudgeripple2000 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Can you say "irony"? You don't seem to understand the concept of what the management is doing to this team. Sure they are trying to put their stamp on the team, but they are burning bridges in the process. There are other players on the team that are taking note; Peppers, Jennings, Tillman, Briggs....all players that no doubt had a strong bond to Urlacher. If it wasn't evident in their play on the field, look at the time when Urlacher's mother passed. The team chartered a jet to attend her funeral. As someone pointed out earlier, this WAS more a family enviornment. It appears that its trending away from that. The traditional values and pride that some fans have to this team are being whittled away. You say its time to move on and get new blood but at what cost? Let me first say that all my kids save one have an Urlacher jersey, my daughter has a pink one. Point being, we are Urlacher fans. However, lets look ahead: what if we gave Brian a "respectable" deal and his injuries continued or worse, he was able to play and his "loss of a step" started affecting the play of briggs or the safeties that would have to help if he couldn't drop back as well. Any player would be okay for a couple of times but that "family" concept would be out the window when one player's deficiencies affected other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 The defense was good when he played last year, one of the bests I've seen. I don't see the old broken down player most seem to think he is. I understand the money issue, but I also think Urlacher is more than worth the 3 million or whatever to keep him, more than Hester will be worth to just be a returner or even more than Melton is worth the franchise tag. I don't know how to take Emery just yet. He goes and makes a big trade for Marshall last season, then ignores the OL and has a forgettable draft class. This year he makes a big OL and TE signing, then lets his linebackers go, even though Urlacher could be had at a steal money-wise. I really want to like the guy, but I'm starting to feel I'm not going to when all things are said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 The defense was good when he played last year, one of the bests I've seen. I don't see the old broken down player most seem to think he is. I understand the money issue, but I also think Urlacher is more than worth the 3 million or whatever to keep him, more than Hester will be worth to just be a returner or even more than Melton is worth the franchise tag. I don't know how to take Emery just yet. He goes and makes a big trade for Marshall last season, then ignores the OL and has a forgettable draft class. This year he makes a big OL and TE signing, then lets his linebackers go, even though Urlacher could be had at a steal money-wise. I really want to like the guy, but I'm starting to feel I'm not going to when all things are said and done. Join the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Let me first say that all my kids save one have an Urlacher jersey, my daughter has a pink one. Point being, we are Urlacher fans. However, lets look ahead: what if we gave Brian a "respectable" deal and his injuries continued or worse, he was able to play and his "loss of a step" started affecting the play of briggs or the safeties that would have to help if he couldn't drop back as well. Any player would be okay for a couple of times but that "family" concept would be out the window when one player's deficiencies affected other players. With Briggs I think he would have understood, had that happened. This would not have been the first time Brian would be returning from an injury. Let alone one where he was out almost all year (like in '09). But the thing to consider now is that not only does Briggs not have the KNOWN of Urlacher at middle but noone at the WLB position he is familar with, since Roach has left. And from my understadnding the new DC was brought in due to his knowledge and some familiarity with the Cover 2. So the team didn't really intend to change the scheme all that much. The safeties (Conte and Wright) are too young to have much say but would have followed the guidance of Urlacher's leadership. Not only because of his veteran status but also because of his familarity with the position. And I think it safe to say that Brian would not have left himself on the field if he didn't think he could at least contribute. Last year had the lockout effect his return somewhat and the injury later in the season, but in both cases he still managed to put up respectable numbers. And by the way RIP Chris Farley!!! He was a master! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 The reality is, the Bears deserve most of the blame for not making this happen. Negotiation world-wide (trust me on this, I've been to dozens of countries) is the same: one side goes high, one side goes low, the meeting is in the middle. Both are really happy if it's exactly in the middle, but that's not always necessary. The problem is that the Bears didn't want to budge, didn't want to negotiate. That's not how negotiations go at all. If the brass thinks he's worth 3 million, they are not going to pay 4 because he's asking 5. They are going to pay 3, or this case 2. They offered him a deal better than 2 before he tested the water with notice that he would be paid what the market would bring once he came back. That is 2 mil. Fact is: 54 had a higher value placed on himself than the market for him. Again, same with Olin. We'll have this debate again with Briggs in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 That's genuinely surprising. If you've been watching that long I have no clue how you can be so optimistic. You must be one of those people who skips into work on Monday morning. Jason does this mean I won the bet we had? If he never plays another day in the NFL, isnt that 12 games or less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Saw Urlacher play when I went to Chicago for the Seattle game. He is not nearly what he used to be. He was slow all over the field. In the end it was SMC playing the spying role on Russell Wilson...that didn't work well either. Urlacher is still good in a small area and can make some tackles but Roach had something like 14 tackles against the Cardinals while filling in for Urlacher. Did I want him back? Yes. Do I regret the team not overpaying to bring him back? No. I agree with their assessment that he's a 2-down LB these days. As far as those stating the Brian's teammates will miss him. Brian has yet to state which of those teammates he will cut to make room for his demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I don't know what you're getting at with the Tillman and Marshall comments...they just don't make any sense. Apples and hammers. I wonder if you're willing to backtrack on the rest. The Bears NEVER offered Urlacher another offer. It was the 1yr/2m offer. Period. As for the hamstring, you point out exactly why they are hamstrung. Before they could have filled the hole with a FA or a mid-rounder. Then grabbed an UDFA and hoped he was a good backup. Now they don't have that flexibility. They'd be dumb if they didn't draft a LB in either the 1st or the 2nd. You said this will have a negative effect on the future of vet contracts. How so? Will Tillman receive an extension offer and decline it because they didn't keep his buddy? How about Marshall? Would he turn down a huge extension? Urlacher said yesterday he was offered something a few weeks ago and then it finally got negotiated down. This means their initial offer was higher than $2m for 1 year. That's business. He should've taken that initial offer that was higher than 2 but lower than 5 right away and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Yeah, they'll have to draft a LB. I wanted one with the first 2 picks anyway unless you wanted JT Thomas or Blake Costanzo or some other asshat UDFA as a starter. Now they'll draft 2 with their first 4 picks. So what? Seattle has done this and has built up a dominant D with Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 You said this will have a negative effect on the future of vet contracts. How so? Will Tillman receive an extension offer and decline it because they didn't keep his buddy? How about Marshall? Would he turn down a huge extension? Urlacher said yesterday he was offered something a few weeks ago and then it finally got negotiated down. This means their initial offer was higher than $2m for 1 year. That's business. He should've taken that initial offer that was higher than 2 but lower than 5 right away and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Yeah, they'll have to draft a LB. I wanted one with the first 2 picks anyway unless you wanted JT Thomas or Blake Costanzo or some other asshat UDFA as a starter. Now they'll draft 2 with their first 4 picks. So what? Seattle has done this and has built up a dominant D with Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright. First, with the negative effect on the future of veteran contracts, there are two things players look for: 1. They want to play for a winner, and 2. $$$. that's it. No more. No less. As for drafting a guy, I predict we will sign a starting linebacker in the next few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-f...tly-for-vikings Looks like Urlacher is too expensive for another team. Those Vikings are just insulting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 That's not how negotiations go at all. If the brass thinks he's worth 3 million, they are not going to pay 4 because he's asking 5. They are going to pay 3, or this case 2. They offered him a deal better than 2 before he tested the water with notice that he would be paid what the market would bring once he came back. That is 2 mil. Fact is: 54 had a higher value placed on himself than the market for him. Again, same with Olin. We'll have this debate again with Briggs in a year or two. Wrong. In your scenario the leadership would have started at 2m because they want to get a cheap deal, and eventually settled on 3m with a, "Seriously, this is all we can do." Nobody starts with their final offer except this guy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Jason does this mean I won the bet we had? If he never plays another day in the NFL, isnt that 12 games or less? No. One of the stipulations of the bet was that he played for the Bears next year. Go check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 You said this will have a negative effect on the future of vet contracts. How so? Will Tillman receive an extension offer and decline it because they didn't keep his buddy? How about Marshall? Would he turn down a huge extension? Urlacher said yesterday he was offered something a few weeks ago and then it finally got negotiated down. This means their initial offer was higher than $2m for 1 year. That's business. He should've taken that initial offer that was higher than 2 but lower than 5 right away and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Yeah, they'll have to draft a LB. I wanted one with the first 2 picks anyway unless you wanted JT Thomas or Blake Costanzo or some other asshat UDFA as a starter. Now they'll draft 2 with their first 4 picks. So what? Seattle has done this and has built up a dominant D with Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright. The negative effect is where veterans look at how the Bears "negotiated" with Urlacher and decide the reputation of "cheap Bears" is probably accurate, and the franchise isn't a positive one that will build a team. I'm cool with that if the Bears can turn into an NFC version of the Patriots, picking up mercenary players all over the place, but I just don't see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 The negative effect is where veterans look at how the Bears "negotiated" with Urlacher and decide the reputation of "cheap Bears" is probably accurate, and the franchise isn't a positive one that will build a team. I'm cool with that if the Bears can turn into an NFC version of the Patriots, picking up mercenary players all over the place, but I just don't see that happening. Your argument is losing steam because anyone around the league is looking at... ... Julius Peppers earning his $13 million this year ... Charles Tillman is set to earn almost $8 million ... Lance Briggs will make $4.25 million ... Jay Cutler $10 million ....Brandon Marshall $9 million ....Tim Jennings $4.25 million Every guy on that list earned their money with an excellent season last year with the exception of Cutler who played average. This talk of how negatively the teammates feel toward the Bears organization would have us think they all lined up at the door to take a pay cut for their leader. That wasn't even the case with Lance Briggs who eagerly grabbed his extension just last year without the foresight to realize it might cause him to lose his teammate. I'm quite certain that the younger players on their first contract realize that Urlacher earned over $60,000,000 (with a couple of mid-contract increase no less) from the Bears during his tenure there and that is not "cheap". I'm 100% confident they'd love to have one of those cheap contracts and then be willing to be shown the door 8-10 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 And that's not even including M.Bennett, Forte, or Bushrod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I know its been discussed a lot already but my issue with how this went down is the fact we didnt at least use Urlacher as a stopgap until we can find his replacement. They didnt have to give him an ultimatum. I dont see what it could hurt to try to get him down to like 2.5 for 1 year or 2 with incentives after he realized he wasnt gonna get more anywhere else. There isnt too much out there in FA, especially that would be significantly cheaper than Urlacher that would be that much of an upgrade. We literally have 1 usable linebacker on the roster and still have some needs on the OL and need another WR and backup QB and now we essentially have to use one of our first two picks on a LB, probably the first rounder, and then we still need to find another OLB. Even then, the rookie would benefit from a season playing with Urlacher and could probably get some time to adjust to the NFL instead of being thrown into the fire for a team with an aging defense thats window is only another 2 or 3 seasons until they have to completely retool. Dont get me wrong, I know Urlacher is a shell of his former self and isnt worth nearly what he was initially asking, but as of now its looking like we would have been a better team with him here barring some type of magic via FA, trade, draft. Would you rather have Hester here as a KR than Urlacher? Thatd be an easy place to get the cap to sign him. Im not even a Roach fan but Id even say if we kept him then we could have gotten away with letting Urlacher walk, but as we sit today we are down 2 starting linebackers who will have to come in and learn a new defense. Edit: Id also like to point something out that I heard discussed on the radio. The game vs Seattle last season we had them contained all game until Urlacher got hurt in the 4th quarter and they marched down the field twice right through our defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Your argument is losing steam because anyone around the league is looking at... ... Julius Peppers earning his $13 million this year ... Charles Tillman is set to earn almost $8 million ... Lance Briggs will make $4.25 million ... Jay Cutler $10 million ....Brandon Marshall $9 million ....Tim Jennings $4.25 million Every guy on that list earned their money with an excellent season last year with the exception of Cutler who played average. This talk of how negatively the teammates feel toward the Bears organization would have us think they all lined up at the door to take a pay cut for their leader. That wasn't even the case with Lance Briggs who eagerly grabbed his extension just last year without the foresight to realize it might cause him to lose his teammate. I'm quite certain that the younger players on their first contract realize that Urlacher earned over $60,000,000 (with a couple of mid-contract increase no less) from the Bears during his tenure there and that is not "cheap". I'm 100% confident they'd love to have one of those cheap contracts and then be willing to be shown the door 8-10 years later. When players see the process, they won't do any favors unless it benefits them. This might sway their thought about "home team" discounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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