Better or the same at LB

[Wesson44]

Since we lost Urlacher, Roach and Hayes and gained Williams and Anderson and maybe another in the draft or FA are we better or the same at our LB core?

 

Williams

 

Anderson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=B_RVGbhGcvk

[balta1701-A]

Right now, I'd say the Bears are roughly the same. They've gained some athleticism but lost some experience, and perhaps the kicker is that Briggs is of course another year older and eventually everyone gets old. They've probably gained on the health side, but both of the guys they brought in had better years prior to 2012, but if they stay on the field the full year, they're better overall.

 

If they add in a LB from the first couple draft rounds, then I'll genuinely say they're strongly better on paper.

 

One thing worth noting...very few MLB's stay on the field in both running and passing situations. The Bears had one of those guys last year for 2/3 of the season. Even though he missed the last part, that's still an advantage, I think it gives more flexibility to a defense...so something may have to be done if the Bears want to do what most of the league does and rotate LB's.

[AZ54]

Better. These guys have just as much experience in Tucker's defense as Urlacher and Roach. In terms of years of experience they have more than the two who departed but in general I'd say the experience is a wash. We definitely lost in terms of leadership but improved in the athleticism department at both positions.

 

Then there is this:

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http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-02...ive-coordinator

Tucker also was noncommittal on where Shea McClellin may play in the future, but he was firmly committed to a 4-3 defense.

 

“We don’t have any plans to switch at this point,” he said.

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That is a month old but the fact is we really don't know what our defense will look like. I don't expect SMC to change positions in part because if we were thinking of that I think we'd be more clear about staying at #20 hoping to get one of the better DE's (probably won't be there anyway) rather than trying to trade down. Then again smoke screens run rampant this time of year.

 

 

[adam]

I would say we are better in two ways, first on the field Williams/Anderson will be better than Urlacher/Roach. Secondly, the cost of Williams/Anderson is lower than Urlacher/Roach thus allowing the Bears to use the savings to improve elsewhere.

[selection7]

Keep in mind we have several new players on D and a totally new DC. Regardless of what their skills are on paper, this is a rebuilding year. We got younger though, and that was the point, along with starting the process of letting Trestman & Tucker build this D in their image.

[50england50]

Videos show both players have considerably better foot speed the Urlacher and Roach. So I think we will be better. If Urlacher is not picked up is there any chance of him coming back at 1 year 2million or are we set and only looking to the future now at linebacker in the draft or undrafted free agents.

[Guest TerraTor]

Better, maybe not as likeable w/o Url. but better

[adam]

Keep in mind we have several new players on D and a totally new DC. Regardless of what their skills are on paper, this is a rebuilding year. We got younger though, and that was the point, along with starting the process of letting Trestman & Tucker build this D in their image.

Several? Essentially 2 new starting LB's and a backup Safety/ST is several? Also, these guys are coming in from similar schemes, so learning curves will be much smaller. Also, both Williams and Anderson are vets who should be able to adjust pretty quickly.

 

I don't see this as a rebuild. That would be a year where we cut or trade Peppers, Briggs, Tillman, Jennings, Cutler, and Marshall; pick up a slew of draft picks and start over.

[Daventry]

I say better IF the new guys stay on the field and don't have outside issues etc...

 

More likeable for me w/o Urlacher.

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Since we lost Urlacher, Roach and Hayes and gained Williams and Anderson and maybe another in the draft or FA are we better or the same at our LB core?

 

Williams

 

Anderson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=B_RVGbhGcvk

 

Considering these are 'highlight' clips you are seeing both players at their best. What I see in Anderson is a player who is around the ball for a lot of fumble recoveries. Not so many solo tackles. In fact last year he totaled 39 compared to the previous year of 98. (Compared to Urlacher's 53 and 84 respectively). Why the fall off? Most of the comments to the You Tube video seem to be from Carolina fans one of which describes him as a "solid" player. That and he seems like a good "character" but I'll reserve judgement on his addition to the team.

 

On the other hand, Williams' off field issues aside, he seems to be more the dynamic player. Good solid tackling...when he's on the field. His solo totals for the last two years; 10 and 70.

 

So just lookiing at stats and again considering these clips as "highlights" I'm still going to have to wait and see if in fact the Defense has improved.

[adam]

Considering these are 'highlight' clips you are seeing both players at their best. What I see in Anderson is a player who is around the ball for a lot of fumble recoveries. Not so many solo tackles. In fact last year he totaled 39 compared to the previous year of 98. (Compared to Urlacher's 53 and 84 respectively). Why the fall off? Most of the comments to the You Tube video seem to be from Carolina fans one of which describes him as a "solid" player. That and he seems like a good "character" but I'll reserve judgement on his addition to the team.

 

On the other hand, Williams' off field issues aside, he seems to be more the dynamic player. Good solid tackling...when he's on the field. His solo totals for the last two years; 10 and 70.

 

So just lookiing at stats and again considering these clips as "highlights" I'm still going to have to wait and see if in fact the Defense has improved.

How about comparing Anderson to Roach for the last 2 years:

 

Anderson - 98, 39

Roach - 31, 51

 

Also, Anderson missed 4 games due to injury.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Keep in mind we have several new players on D and a totally new DC. Regardless of what their skills are on paper, this is a rebuilding year. We got younger though, and that was the point, along with starting the process of letting Trestman & Tucker build this D in their image.

With the talent and players this team has, this absolutely can't be seen as a rebuilding year. Midway through last season we were considered one of the best teams in the league. Anything other then playoffs and playoff wins is going to be a dissapointment in my mind.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

How about comparing Anderson to Roach for the last 2 years:

 

Anderson - 98, 39

Roach - 31, 51

 

Sure like Urlacher to Williams:

 

Urlacher - 84 and 53

Williams - 70 and 10

 

Also, Anderson missed 4 games due to injury.

 

And wasn't that a part of the reason (at least speculation) that Urlacher "fell off" last year? Even though until that point he was leading the team in tackles?

[adam]

Sure like Urlacher to Williams:

 

Urlacher - 84 and 53

Williams - 70 and 10

 

And wasn't that a part of the reason (at least speculation) that Urlacher "fell off" last year? Even though until that point he was leading the team in tackles?

 

Williams basically didn't play last year so that comparison is ridiculous. That's like comparing their 09-10 campaign, Urlacher had 3 tackles to Williams 100. The numbers don't tell the whole story. Also, just because you have high numbers doesn't necessarily show how many you missed or were broken.

 

Sure Urlacher's numbers were down due to injury and age, but Williams was suspended, which in a way benefited his body with less wear and tear last year. Urlacher rebounded with a great year in 2010-11, and Williams should trend the same way this year.

 

 

 

[Stinger226]

Sure like Urlacher to Williams:

 

Urlacher - 84 and 53

Williams - 70 and 10

 

 

 

And wasn't that a part of the reason (at least speculation) that Urlacher "fell off" last year? Even though until that point he was leading the team in tackles?

If your going to compare them you have to compare what they do this year. Williams? Urlacher retired. I would have to say Williams wins hands down.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Williams basically didn't play last year so that comparison is ridiculous.

 

Maybe you haven't seen where I posted in the past of my viewpoints of stats. My thoughts are they can be translated any which way you see them. For example, you compare Roach to Anderson. In the numbers I see that Anderson actually underperformed Roach last year as opposed to the year prior. I assume your intent was to support the release of Roach and the signing of Anderson. But those numbers don't support (in my viewpoint) a wise move. Although to be honest with you, I didn't have a problem with Roach leaving. I'm just supporting the thought that although "numbers don't lie" they can be skewed to how the reader looks at them.

 

That's like comparing their 09-10 campaign, Urlacher had 3 tackles to Williams 100. The numbers don't tell the whole story. Also, just because you have high numbers doesn't necessarily show how many you missed or were broken.

 

Sure Urlacher's numbers were down due to injury and age, but Williams was suspended, which in a way benefited his body with less wear and tear last year. Urlacher rebounded with a great year in 2010-11, and Williams should trend the same way this year.

 

So the fact that Williams was suspended can be viewed in a positive light? Interesting. And fairly enough if Urlacher was able to rebound in 2010-11 what's to say that he wouldn't / couldn't 2012-13? At least being suspended isn't a concern with him.

 

The 'good' (IMHO) of what Emery has done so far is bargain shopping. To this I will agree.

 

Whether that translates to the defense (or the rest of the team) being better, remains to be seen. (Hence the bold on "should")

[Alaskan Grizzly]

If your going to compare them you have to compare what they do this year. Williams? Urlacher retired. I would have to say Williams wins hands down.

 

Well for one the season has to begin. And I didn't realize that Urlacher "retired". Considering your history of bet making I would caution you against making a bet on those assumptions you just posted.

[Daventry]

Maybe you haven't seen where I posted in the past of my viewpoints of stats. My thoughts are they can be translated any which way you see them. For example, you compare Roach to Anderson. In the numbers I see that Anderson actually underperformed Roach last year as opposed to the year prior. I assume your intent was to support the release of Roach and the signing of Anderson. But those numbers don't support (in my viewpoint) a wise move. Although to be honest with you, I didn't have a problem with Roach leaving. I'm just supporting the thought that although "numbers don't lie" they can be skewed to how the reader looks at them.

 

 

 

So the fact that Williams was suspended can be viewed in a positive light? Interesting. And fairly enough if Urlacher was able to rebound in 2010-11 what's to say that he wouldn't / couldn't 2012-13? At least being suspended isn't a concern with him.

 

The 'good' (IMHO) of what Emery has done so far is bargain shopping. To this I will agree.

 

Whether that translates to the defense (or the rest of the team) being better, remains to be seen. (Hence the bold on "should")

 

 

It is hard to keep up with all of the posts each member makes, but when one makes ridiculous ones then it is good there are those to point the errors out.

 

It is easy to predict that some posters will always favour the "old" over the "new," and you hold true to form.

 

It is easy to see that Urlacher was very old and having increased injury issues and was highly unlikely to play a full year. It he was so valued why does he remain unsigned? Money talks etc....

 

There is no doubt we have taken on less risk with the new guys than we had with the old, regardless of sentiment.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

It is hard to keep up with all of the posts each member makes, but when one makes ridiculous ones then it is good there are those to point the errors out.

 

It is easy to predict that some posters will always favour the "old" over the "new," and you hold true to form.

 

Well at least I'm consistent, if nothing else. And you're right, if someone does make "ridiculous posts" it should be pointed out. Please tell me where the errors were so I can correct them?

 

It is easy to see that Urlacher was very old and having increased injury issues and was highly unlikely to play a full year. It he was so valued why does he remain unsigned? Money talks etc....

 

There is no doubt we have taken on less risk with the new guys than we had with the old, regardless of sentiment.

 

All of this, especially the bolded section remains to be seen. IF Williams doesn't manage to stay out of trouble, then who is erroneous? My comment is simply that you cannot guarantee anything. Just like I could not guarantee that Urlacher would have proven better for the team this year....until after the season was over. Your statements are bold and COULD be proven right.

 

My point of the responses in this thread were not necessarily to revive a discussion on whether or not the team made an error in letting Urlacher go. That ship has sailed. I was simply using the comparsion between the most recently 'let go' LB's (Urlacher and Roach) to the newly acquired LB's (Williams and Anderson). I'm still going into it with an open mind...more or less.

[Daventry]

Well at least I'm consistent, if nothing else. And you're right, if someone does make "ridiculous posts" it should be pointed out. Please tell me where the errors were so I can correct them?

 

 

 

All of this, especially the bolded section remains to be seen. IF Williams doesn't manage to stay out of trouble, then who is erroneous? My comment is simply that you cannot guarantee anything. Just like I could not guarantee that Urlacher would have proven better for the team this year....until after the season was over. Your statements are bold and COULD be proven right.

 

My point of the responses in this thread were not necessarily to revive a discussion on whether or not the team made an error in letting Urlacher go. That ship has sailed. I was simply using the comparsion between the most recently 'let go' LB's (Urlacher and Roach) to the newly acquired LB's (Williams and Anderson). I'm still going into it with an open mind...more or less.

 

 

Consistent indeed....good on you.

 

Read back through the thread and it will be easy to see what I was referring to.

 

It is interesting you claim to be going to be "going into it with an open mind (more or less) in relation to the changes being made, when your posts always are obviously the opposite.

 

Hence my observations.

 

Not many Bears fans who wish to win are wanting the same old formula we have had since we last won a Super Bowl, I am hoping that the new regime delivers what we all want and rest easy knowing the old regime never would have and the Bears are in better hands in the future.

 

 

[Stinger226]

Well for one the season has to begin. And I didn't realize that Urlacher "retired". Considering your history of bet making I would caution you against making a bet on those assumptions you just posted.

Well considering betting, Urlacher is no longer here, so I called that one right, the Bears didnt want him. So when I said he wouldnt play 12 games, winner winner chicken dinner. I think the possiblity exists he might sign somewhere but after his first injury, he will be retired this year. I am up for betting on that, your call.

[AZ54]

I know the point of this thread was "are we better at LB" but as was pointed out above, if you are going to compare the business decisions at LB you will also have to add in the other players we signed (or didn't have to cut) with the extra $3-5mil we saved over Roach/Urlacher.

 

From a LB evaluation perhaps it's a wash, some good some bad and each of us weight different variables as we see it (leadership, experience, etc.). Those who really valued Urlacher's leadership will likely fall to the negative side. Those who put more weight on his injury prone body and slowness probably see it the other way. For the overall roster I think it's a big positive.