Team mini camp notes

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

If they already like James Brown over Carimi now, and they draft another guard who takes over as a starter, Its very possible Carimi could be an odd man out. Depends what happens the rest of the off-season. Emery didn't mess around with Chris Williams for very long until they tossed him aside. I think he does end up staying though for depth purposes, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him gone.

I've been saying this for months. Carimi was f***ing horrendous last year and everyone used the "he was hurt" excuse for him. That injury was a 2-4 week injury that magically turned into a 1.5 year injury. Remember, he had knee/leg issues at Wisconsin. I'm not counting on him to help at all this year.

[bradjock]

Biggs never tweeted that. In fact, Michael Wright said those were not the starters. I'm also pretty sure that they aren't allowed to tweet those things, aside from who did & did not look good.

 

Zak Zaidman was on the Boers and Bernstein show @ 4:00 this afternoon. He reported is was Bushrod, Slauson, Garza, the godfather of soul, and Web. He emphasized how damn early this was and that a ton can change. He was mainly pointing out the uncertainty about Carimi.

 

Who did Michael Wright say were the starters? You can go to 670thescore.com and listen to the podcast.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Zak Zaidman was on the Boers and Bernstein show @ 4:00 this afternoon. He reported is was Bushrod, Slauson, Garza, the godfather of soul, and Web. He emphasized how damn early this was and that a ton can change. He was mainly pointing out the uncertainty about Carimi.

 

Who did Michael Wright say were the starters? You can go to 670thescore.com and listen to the podcast.

RT @mikecwright: Nope. RT @nwfisch: @mikecwright Was the O-line Bushrod-Slauson-Garza-Carimi-Webb?

[bradjock]

RT @mikecwright: Nope. RT @nwfisch: @mikecwright Was the O-line Bushrod-Slauson-Garza-Carimi-Webb?

 

So the only change was Carimi over Brown? That makes sense from a talent perspective. I was surprised to here Zaidman say Brown was with the first group.

 

Although I got the impression that Carimi was moved around during practice from RG, LG, to RT. i'd prefer we give him one spot. It might be wishful thinking, but I was thrilled when Carimi fell to us at #29. I'm hoping he can still be a stud.

[Stinger226]

So the only change was Carimi over Brown? That makes sense from a talent perspective. I was surprised to here Zaidman say Brown was with the first group.

 

Although I got the impression that Carimi was moved around during practice from RG, LG, to RT. i'd prefer we give him one spot. It might be wishful thinking, but I was thrilled when Carimi fell to us at #29. I'm hoping he can still be a stud.

It was stated he was only at RG.

[Stinger226]

Biggs never tweeted that. In fact, Michael Wright said those were not the starters. I'm also pretty sure that they aren't allowed to tweet those things, aside from who did & did not look good.

Briggs tweeted he was at OG and Zack stated on the SCORE he was backing up Brown at RG. There are not allowed to tweet during practice but they are not restricted to there content when they do tweet.

[Stinger226]

Briggs tweeted he was at OG and Zack stated on the SCORE he was backing up Brown at RG. There are not allowed to tweet during practice but they are not restricted to there content when they do tweet.

With them bringing more bodies in at OG and Carmi not being given the starter spot, It aint looking good for Carmi to stick with the team. Although you only get impressions without pads on, they look at a lot of tape. Last years tape on Carmi was not good at all. Hopefully he can earn his way back to a starter..I looked up his salary and if we cut him this year it ends up being 2.8 mil in dead cap. That might come into play.

[jason]

They have film.

 

If it's all based on film, then Webb shouldn't be the default RT.

[jason]

Todays starters were LT-Bushrod, LG-Slauson, C-Garza, RG-James Brown, LT-Webb

 

If that's the case, then I hope:

1) Cooper or Warmack is there in the first, and they take the starting RG job

2) Carimi is given a legit chance at RT (doesn't appear as such) and beats out Webb for the RT job

 

What it already tells us, however, is the Bears will be going left a lot more than right.

[Stinger226]

If that's the case, then I hope:

1) Cooper or Warmack is there in the first, and they take the starting RG job

2) Carimi is given a legit chance at RT (doesn't appear as such) and beats out Webb for the RT job

 

What it already tells us, however, is the Bears will be going left a lot more than right.

This morning on the SCORE Brad Briggs stated the OLine was Bushrod,Brown,Garza,Slauson,Webb with Carmi and Scott seeing time on the right side. Well so far with people that attended practice we have 3 different lineups. I guess pick the one you most trust. In any event, Carmi is right at this moment in time a backup. Also stated that Carmi was moved to LG,RG, and RT so will see how it all shakes out.

 

I dont think we will see the wasted time outs and time penalties anymore with this coaching staff. They are to the point and everybody is lining up right, everything seems fluid. Not much you can tell with players in shorts but that is one thing you can notice.

[Mongo3451]

If it's all based on film, then Webb shouldn't be the default RT.

I know you seriously hate this, but they know better than you. Nuf said on that.

 

There is competition. Film showed the world Carimi sucked last year. It's time for him to prove himself. If he shows up and is a beast. He'll get a look. For now, his shot is at guard and I agree with that. I agree with Webb at #1 on the depth chart at RT as well.

[bradjock]

If that's the case, then I hope:

1) Cooper or Warmack is there in the first, and they take the starting RG job

2) Carimi is given a legit chance at RT (doesn't appear as such) and beats out Webb for the RT job

 

What it already tells us, however, is the Bears will be going left a lot more than right.

 

As for Cooper or Warmack, I suspect that either we know they'll be gone by #20 or we have no interest in drafting them. I say that because last year Phil Emery took the Jerry Angelo approach of trying to find guards on the cheap. Since then, we let Lance Louis go, moved Carimi to guard, and signed Slauson and Britton.

 

As for Carimi, I get the impression we think he could be a damn good guard. If we are correct, isn't that a win? If we put him in a position that he excels at then everybody is a winner.

 

 

[jason]

I know you seriously hate this, but they know better than you. Nuf said on that.

 

There is competition. Film showed the world Carimi sucked last year. It's time for him to prove himself. If he shows up and is a beast. He'll get a look. For now, his shot is at guard and I agree with that. I agree with Webb at #1 on the depth chart at RT as well.

 

And yet there continue to be absolutely horrible teams in the NFL year in and year out. Never mind the copious scrimmages, practices, tape, and measurements, and people like Ryan Leaf still get drafted. They may know more, but they sure as hell don't do much with all that knowledge. I'm sorry but I'm just not going to blindly agree with the moves this staff makes - I've seen too many horrible moves to believe they are so all-knowing. Particularly from a noob GM and a NFL HC who admittedly doesn't know the NFL landscape as well as other GMs.

 

There is a reason there saying "Can't see the forest for the trees" exists.

[jason]

As for Cooper or Warmack, I suspect that either we know they'll be gone by #20 or we have no interest in drafting them. I say that because last year Phil Emery took the Jerry Angelo approach of trying to find guards on the cheap. Since then, we let Lance Louis go, moved Carimi to guard, and signed Slauson and Britton.

 

As for Carimi, I get the impression we think he could be a damn good guard. If we are correct, isn't that a win? If we put him in a position that he excels at then everybody is a winner.

 

It's only a win if they fill the RT hole. Otherwise it's just a shell game.

[Mongo3451]

And yet there continue to be absolutely horrible teams in the NFL year in and year out. Never mind the copious scrimmages, practices, tape, and measurements, and people like Ryan Leaf still get drafted. They may know more, but they sure as hell don't do much with all that knowledge. I'm sorry but I'm just not going to blindly agree with the moves this staff makes - I've seen too many horrible moves to believe they are so all-knowing. Particularly from a noob GM and a NFL HC who admittedly doesn't know the NFL landscape as well as other GMs.

 

There is a reason there saying "Can't see the forest for the trees" exists.

It's all about deciding what is most important for the team in most cases. Lovie was all over D and horrible at developing personnel. That stagnated the O for years and we are still not out of it. When the drafting and spending is so blatantly lopsided a bias will show. Again, they have more tape and player history with guys currently on the team than we will ever have. They know secrets about players we will never know. For some reason they like Webb over Carimi. It may be medical, mental or simply execution they are seeing.

 

As far as blind trust is concerned, I have three and only three people.(None of them are in the NFL) I do know that IMO Webb is better than Carimi, just as I thought he was better than Williams last year. It's based on production and the feel I get from analyzing them.

[jason]

It's all about deciding what is most important for the team in most cases. Lovie was all over D and horrible at developing personnel. That stagnated the O for years and we are still not out of it. When the drafting and spending is so blatantly lopsided a bias will show.

 

Again, they have more tape and player history with guys currently on the team than we will ever have. They know secrets about players we will never know. For some reason they like Webb over Carimi. It may be medical, mental or simply execution they are seeing.

 

As far as blind trust is concerned, I have three and only three people.(None of them are in the NFL) I do know that IMO Webb is better than Carimi, just as I thought he was better than Williams last year. It's based on production and the feel I get from analyzing them.

 

I bolded one thing and italicized another. They are directly contradictory, which is why I don't trust NFL head honchos that much. Our limited knowledge scope may actually be beneficial because we don't factor in extras, superlatives, and personal feelings. What the front office types in the NFL do is essentially insider trading with piss-poor results.

 

BTW - I don't disagree with the notion that Webb played better than Carimi last year. But I don't think it was a drastic difference, and the post-season talk has trumped up Webb far more than he deserves. Furthermore, I believe Carimi actually is better than Webb, but he got injured, got moved, and never really regained his equilibrium as a player.

[Mongo3451]

I bolded one thing and italicized another. They are directly contradictory, which is why I don't trust NFL head honchos that much. Our limited knowledge scope may actually be beneficial because we don't factor in extras, superlatives, and personal feelings. What the front office types in the NFL do is essentially insider trading with piss-poor results.

 

BTW - I don't disagree with the notion that Webb played better than Carimi last year. But I don't think it was a drastic difference, and the post-season talk has trumped up Webb far more than he deserves. Furthermore, I believe Carimi actually is better than Webb, but he got injured, got moved, and never really regained his equilibrium as a player.

Not sure it is contradictory. The statement was made to show why first we are in the pinch we are in. The second part is to show the choices that are being made in the aftermath. That's why they were separated by paragraph.

[Stinger226]

I bolded one thing and italicized another. They are directly contradictory, which is why I don't trust NFL head honchos that much. Our limited knowledge scope may actually be beneficial because we don't factor in extras, superlatives, and personal feelings. What the front office types in the NFL do is essentially insider trading with piss-poor results.

 

BTW - I don't disagree with the notion that Webb played better than Carimi last year. But I don't think it was a drastic difference, and the post-season talk has trumped up Webb far more than he deserves. Furthermore, I believe Carimi actually is better than Webb, but he got injured, got moved, and never really regained his equilibrium as a player.

your very convincing on the fact you are smarter than most NFL GMs, I think you should go apply for a job, the owners will clearly see what we see here on your brilliant ideas , plus they could get you a lot cheaper.

[jason]

Not sure it is contradictory. The statement was made to show why first we are in the pinch we are in. The second part is to show the choices that are being made in the aftermath. That's why they were separated by paragraph.

 

It's contradictory because we both acknowledge that A) The coaches/owners have a ton of insight and knowledge to which we are not privy, yet Lovie and crew continued to make horrible personnel decisions.

 

You'd think with A being true, B wouldn't happen.

[jason]

your very convincing on the fact you are smarter than most NFL GMs, I think you should go apply for a job, the owners will clearly see what we see here on your brilliant ideas , plus they could get you a lot cheaper.

 

I think you should quit being an antagonistic, sycophantic lemming who, out of one side of your mouth, questions the decisions of a franchise by posting and speculating on a message board about what the franchise should do, and out of the other side of your mouth make statements about us fans not being able to have informed opinions that could potentially be better than those in a position of influence. The fact that their inside knowledge doesn't produce consistent, successful results is enough to question them. You're falling into what's called the fallacy of the undistributed middle. The simple fact is, if you go back on this board you will find a litany of good and bad choices/decisions/draft pick scenarios made by board members. And the success rate - based upon the careers of those players on other teams - wouldn't be that different from the Chicago Bears over the same time period.

 

And please, quit with the dumbass "you should go apply" line. It's been used before and it's completely unfeasible. Had I thought about it before, when I was younger and didn't have a career and/or family, I would have probably tried to do something in sports. As I'm sure many on this board would have. But the next guy without connections who decides midway into his 30s, "You know what? I'm going to go work my way up through and organization and become a GM!" will be the first guy to do it.

[Stinger226]

I think you should quit being an antagonistic, sycophantic lemming who, out of one side of your mouth, questions the decisions of a franchise by posting and speculating on a message board about what the franchise should do, and out of the other side of your mouth make statements about us fans not being able to have informed opinions that could potentially be better than those in a position of influence. The fact that their inside knowledge doesn't produce consistent, successful results is enough to question them. You're falling into what's called the fallacy of the undistributed middle. The simple fact is, if you go back on this board you will find a litany of good and bad choices/decisions/draft pick scenarios made by board members. And the success rate - based upon the careers of those players on other teams - wouldn't be that different from the Chicago Bears over the same time period.

 

And please, quit with the dumbass "you should go apply" line. It's been used before and it's completely unfeasible. Had I thought about it before, when I was younger and didn't have a career and/or family, I would have probably tried to do something in sports. As I'm sure many on this board would have. But the next guy without connections who decides midway into his 30s, "You know what? I'm going to go work my way up through and organization and become a GM!" will be the first guy to do it.

There are a lot of people on here that make informed and good judgement calls on different scenarios, and even include you in that group, but usually doing it from hindsight to say( look what I said). I could say I like 10 LBers in the draft and then two years later after the fact 4 of then turned out good, I could say how smart I was. Giving opinions and doing it for a job are way different. You get rid of Urlacher and get condemned and praised for it and then Urlacher never plays again so you say,( he would have did good if!) None of that matters. Gms get fired every year, bad ones make good decisions and good one make bad decisions. Timing is everything. For you to compare your suggestions over Jerry Angelos decisions since he was here, my grandchild could have drafted better. He was bad, everybody on here might have did a better job. When you make decisions that affects whether you staying working or whether you get fired, can not be compared to bloggers opinions. Its like having a Giraffe screw a rabbit, it just doesnt work. To say your the smartest one on here, I could live with that egoism, but your mixing apples and oranges.

[jason]

There are a lot of people on here that make informed and good judgement calls on different scenarios, and even include you in that group, but usually doing it from hindsight to say( look what I said). I could say I like 10 LBers in the draft and then two years later after the fact 4 of then turned out good, I could say how smart I was. Giving opinions and doing it for a job are way different. You get rid of Urlacher and get condemned and praised for it and then Urlacher never plays again so you say,( he would have did good if!) None of that matters. Gms get fired every year, bad ones make good decisions and good one make bad decisions. Timing is everything. For you to compare your suggestions over Jerry Angelos decisions since he was here, my grandchild could have drafted better. He was bad, everybody on here might have did a better job. When you make decisions that affects whether you staying working or whether you get fired, can not be compared to bloggers opinions. Its like having a Giraffe screw a rabbit, it just doesnt work. To say your the smartest one on here, I could live with that egoism, but your mixing apples and oranges.

 

I don't disagree with a thing about the "your job" vs. "your opinion on a message board" thing, but my entire point is exactly what you wrote (bolded).

 

I'm not saying any single person on this board could have done better than the upper echelon of GMs in the NFL (as a board collective I still think we'd have a shot), but I am saying many individuals could have done just as good of a job as the Bears' leaders (and several other teams')...something you appear to agree with.

 

BTW - I think your point is interesting, and it's even more interesting considering the chances that JA and Lovie took. You'd think since their jobs were riding on it they'd take fewer flyers on mid-round guys from West Appalachian State A&M and use those picks on guys from the 4 or 5 major conferences because, those guys played against better competition and more future NFL players. If my job were directly related to it, you can guarantee a guy would have to be Randy Moss nasty before I started to seriously consider drafting him over someone from the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, WAC, etc.

[Stinger226]

I don't disagree with a thing about the "your job" vs. "your opinion on a message board" thing, but my entire point is exactly what you wrote (bolded).

 

I'm not saying any single person on this board could have done better than the upper echelon of GMs in the NFL (as a board collective I still think we'd have a shot), but I am saying many individuals could have done just as good of a job as the Bears' leaders (and several other teams')...something you appear to agree with.

 

BTW - I think your point is interesting, and it's even more interesting considering the chances that JA and Lovie took. You'd think since their jobs were riding on it they'd take fewer flyers on mid-round guys from West Appalachian State A&M and use those picks on guys from the 4 or 5 major conferences because, those guys played against better competition and more future NFL players. If my job were directly related to it, you can guarantee a guy would have to be Randy Moss nasty before I started to seriously consider drafting him over someone from the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, WAC, etc.

I think we are probably on the same wave length, it is just sometimes you come across as ego tripper,saying you could do a better job. In a lot of situations, you might have made a better choice, but it all gets lost in transition. A draft choice a person made 3 years ago that failed, caused you to sign Peppers, a good player but played a ton of money. It is a snow ball effect, on one year to the next with all the decisions a GM makes. All of there choices are on record. I dont have the time or interest to go back and look at your opinion on something from a few years ago, so things get lost. It is just easier to criticize sitting in front of a computer than sitting in one of there chairs. I have never claimed there all brainiacs, just that you cant really compare our view to theirs. On here we all batter our opinions on who's smarter or made a better point, I think I could of did a better job than JA did, but if my job was at stake things might have been different. It is just kind of a mute point.

[jason]

I think we are probably on the same wave length, it is just sometimes you come across as ego tripper,saying you could do a better job. In a lot of situations, you might have made a better choice, but it all gets lost in transition. A draft choice a person made 3 years ago that failed, caused you to sign Peppers, a good player but played a ton of money. It is a snow ball effect, on one year to the next with all the decisions a GM makes. All of there choices are on record. I dont have the time or interest to go back and look at your opinion on something from a few years ago, so things get lost. It is just easier to criticize sitting in front of a computer than sitting in one of there chairs. I have never claimed there all brainiacs, just that you cant really compare our view to theirs. On here we all batter our opinions on who's smarter or made a better point, I think I could of did a better job than JA did, but if my job was at stake things might have been different. It is just kind of a mute point.

 

I don't disagree about the snowball, which is why I don't talk often about the FA moves I could have made if I were GM. Sometimes. But the problem is we will never know what would have happened if someone else were in charge. There are some things that would have unequivocally changed the course of the franchise. For instance, I was crazy about Moss in 98, and absolutely hated the Enis pick. I was adamant about trading down several spots and getting Moss. That would have undoubtedly turned out better for the Bears than what actually happened. BTW - I was a huge fan of Hines Ward that year also. Imagine that, a WR corp of Moss and Ward. That would have set the Bears up for years.

 

Also agreed that it's a moot point, but that's the point of this board. We discuss and debate moot points because we obviously aren't in the organization. That's why the "go get a GM job" thing pisses me off; it's a moot point about a moot point.

[Stinger226]

I don't disagree about the snowball, which is why I don't talk often about the FA moves I could have made if I were GM. Sometimes. But the problem is we will never know what would have happened if someone else were in charge. There are some things that would have unequivocally changed the course of the franchise. For instance, I was crazy about Moss in 98, and absolutely hated the Enis pick. I was adamant about trading down several spots and getting Moss. That would have undoubtedly turned out better for the Bears than what actually happened. BTW - I was a huge fan of Hines Ward that year also. Imagine that, a WR corp of Moss and Ward. That would have set the Bears up for years.

 

Also agreed that it's a moot point, but that's the point of this board. We discuss and debate moot points because we obviously aren't in the organization. That's why the "go get a GM job" thing pisses me off; it's a moot point about a moot point.

I was just being sarcastic.