What about this

[Bears4Ever_34]

Gore is dyslexic so his score validates his condition. AJ Green also had a learning disability. A bunch of players score low when they have a learning disability, but the ones that don't and score low has to draw some concern.

If somebody with a learning disability is able to comprehend well enough to learn an NFL offense, especially one as complex as San Francisco's, I think Tavon Austin will be just fine.

 

Again, there is no study out there that shows there is any correlation between your score on the wonderlic and how that translates to on-field performance.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I said "it's a factor" I didn't say it was the only thing a team will consider. Vince Young had a 6 but you can keep cherry picking players for which it may not have been a sign of poor future performance. Blaine Gabbert had a 42, what's that doing for him?

 

The fact that there have been other cases of players scoring low and performing well and players scoring well and performing terrible means that it is not necessarily a factor in anything performance related. You don't know Vince Young's low test score had anything to do with his failures as a quarterback. You basically just proved my point in your last line there about Gabbert. Too much inconsistency to be able to prove anything, which is why I, personally, don't consider it a factor.

 

 

 

This might just shock you but there is a reason teams likw to interview players they are interested in and this is one of them.

 

Interviewing somebody and timed test taking are two completely different things. Interviewing is a more productive way of getting to know somebody. Get them on the board and have them draw up plays in front of you to better demonstrate how much they can tell you about their role in the offense.

 

Great math skills, or English skills, don't have a perfect correlation to great skill reading defenses, or diagnosing offensive plays at the snap. It may (notice that word "may" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/may?s=t) indicate work ethic on and off the field, and the ability to assimilate information in a short amount of time (i.e. learn a new playbook) and that is a factor for every team at any pick. College grades do not necessarily indicate success in business world but companies still want to know what your grades were. The question is how much weight does it deserve?

 

Thanks for the help on learning what the word "may" means, but it wasn't necessary.

 

Personally, I'd rather talk to somebody face to face and get a feel for them that way as opposed to jumping to conclusions about a man's potential inability to learn a playbook based off of a test that has never been proven to demonstrate the things you and others have speculated they may have. If you want to put stock into those test scores, more power to you.

 

Explain why you like to take one small word and then extrapolate the meaning of it all the way to extreme position, a position which is clearly not being argued? It's a straw man argument (http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-straw-man-argument.htm). And my comparison to Hester was not just based on his early lack of knowing where to line up and what route to run, it was also based on the smaller stature of both players.

 

"For anyone who remembers teammates having to tell Hester where to line up on plays, yes, it is a factor"

 

^^ That is what you said.

 

You used Hester as part of your argument to insinuate meaning behind the Wonderlic Test, as if you were trying to attribute Austin's test score to make him out to be incompetent the way Hester is. I'm not having any luck finding out what Devin Hester's Wonderlic score was exactly so unless you were able to find it, I'm assuming you are just making a guess as to what the score was, and then also trying to make the connection between the score and a player's inability to learn an NFL playbook.

 

Austin's improvements as a player and desire to get stronger in the weight room speak to his work ethic much more than that test ever will.

[adam]

If somebody with a learning disability is able to comprehend well enough to learn an NFL offense, especially one as complex as San Francisco's, I think Tavon Austin will be just fine.

 

Again, there is no study out there that shows there is any correlation between your score on the wonderlic and how that translates to on-field performance.

Either does speed, combine scores, school size, or collegiate performance. My only concern with Austin is his size, everyone is getting bigger and faster, and he wasn't even the leading receiver on his team. Bailey had twice as many TD's and 400 more yards. How much of Austin's production was due to the system?

 

 

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

Either does speed, combine scores, school size, or collegiate performance. My only concern with Austin is his size, everyone is getting bigger and faster, and he wasn't even the leading receiver on his team. Bailey had twice as many TD's and 400 more yards. How much of Austin's production was due to the system?

Those are much better indicators though because it actually relates to football.

 

I agree with your last part. I have my concerns as well about his size, not so much height wise, but weight wise. I'm encouraged by the fact that he looks like he's put time in the weight room, so he's not a toothpick like Desean Jackson. That should help quite a bit. He's also proven to be quite durable at the collegiate level by playing in every game.

 

As far as how much the system benefited him? It surely helped, but his explosiveness and raw speed are two things that will definitely translate to the next level. Nobody was more explosive than Tavon Austin. Some things you just can't teach a player, and he's a guy who just makes plays. He will need time, like any young WR, to adjust to the NFL game, but one thing for sure that I think will translate right away is his ability to return kicks. Even if he's not a productive offensive player in year 1 or 2, he is going to be a major factor on special teams, which is another reason why I find him so intriguing.

[AZ54]

The fact that there have been other cases of players scoring low and performing well and players scoring well and performing terrible means that it is not necessarily a factor in anything performance related. You don't know Vince Young's low test score had anything to do with his failures as a quarterback. You basically just proved my point in your last line there about Gabbert. Too much inconsistency to be able to prove anything, which is why I, personally, don't consider it a factor.

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewing somebody and timed test taking are two completely different things. Interviewing is a more productive way of getting to know somebody. Get them on the board and have them draw up plays in front of you to better demonstrate how much they can tell you about their role in the offense.

 

 

 

Thanks for the help on learning what the word "may" means, but it wasn't necessary.

 

Personally, I'd rather talk to somebody face to face and get a feel for them that way as opposed to jumping to conclusions about a man's potential inability to learn a playbook based off of a test that has never been proven to demonstrate the things you and others have speculated they may have. If you want to put stock into those test scores, more power to you.

 

 

 

"For anyone who remembers teammates having to tell Hester where to line up on plays, yes, it is a factor"

 

^^ That is what you said.

 

You used Hester as part of your argument to insinuate meaning behind the Wonderlic Test, as if you were trying to attribute Austin's test score to make him out to be incompetent the way Hester is. I'm not having any luck finding out what Devin Hester's Wonderlic score was exactly so unless you were able to find it, I'm assuming you are just making a guess as to what the score was, and then also trying to make the connection between the score and a player's inability to learn an NFL playbook.

 

Austin's improvements as a player and desire to get stronger in the weight room speak to his work ethic much more than that test ever will.

 

I used Hester as part of my argument that the ability of a WR to learn an offense is important to success in the NFL. I suppose I could have used David Terrell.

 

We're in agreement...the interviews are far more important and could give some indication of the why behind the Wonderlic test results. Gabbert may be smart enough to read a defense but lack the courage to hang in the pocket and make the play. I don't know I've never watched him play in the NFL. A low score would definitely make me do more research to understand why.

 

Teams add in feedback from coaches on the player (although that could be biased as well). The problem is teams get a whopping 15min to interview at the combine but the other visits from players are probably more telling. That assumes a team doesn't waste time on stupid questions. This is the stuff we never get to know as teams keep it all very close to the vest.

 

Hester had a good work ethic to build up his body for being a WR. It may have helped in some ways but slowed him down. Austin is a far more polished WR coming out of college, he will contribute immediately for any team. I just think there will be players at that spot in the first that can contribute as much or more over more games (i.e. Fluker) and that we can get a productive slot WR later in the draft. Since they decided to keep Hester (I preferred the cap space) there is no need to bring in Austin to return kicks.

[jason]

The fact that there have been other cases of players scoring low and performing well and players scoring well and performing terrible means that it is not necessarily a factor in anything performance related. You don't know Vince Young's low test score had anything to do with his failures as a quarterback. You basically just proved my point in your last line there about Gabbert. Too much inconsistency to be able to prove anything, which is why I, personally, don't consider it a factor.

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewing somebody and timed test taking are two completely different things. Interviewing is a more productive way of getting to know somebody. Get them on the board and have them draw up plays in front of you to better demonstrate how much they can tell you about their role in the offense.

 

 

 

Thanks for the help on learning what the word "may" means, but it wasn't necessary.

 

Personally, I'd rather talk to somebody face to face and get a feel for them that way as opposed to jumping to conclusions about a man's potential inability to learn a playbook based off of a test that has never been proven to demonstrate the things you and others have speculated they may have. If you want to put stock into those test scores, more power to you.

 

 

 

"For anyone who remembers teammates having to tell Hester where to line up on plays, yes, it is a factor"

 

^^ That is what you said.

 

You used Hester as part of your argument to insinuate meaning behind the Wonderlic Test, as if you were trying to attribute Austin's test score to make him out to be incompetent the way Hester is. I'm not having any luck finding out what Devin Hester's Wonderlic score was exactly so unless you were able to find it, I'm assuming you are just making a guess as to what the score was, and then also trying to make the connection between the score and a player's inability to learn an NFL playbook.

 

Austin's improvements as a player and desire to get stronger in the weight room speak to his work ethic much more than that test ever will.

 

So you think they are of no value. Got it. The NFL teams all apparently think the tests are worthwhile, along with various government and private organizations. The tests must have some validity to possess that type of spread.

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

So you think they are of no value. Got it. The NFL teams all apparently think the tests are worthwhile, along with various government and private organizations. The tests must have some validity to possess that type of spread.

I don't find value as it relates to football performance. Unless you can find actual studies that have been proven to suggest that it does then I'd be more open to accepting that belief. As I mentioned above, there is just so many inconsistencies.

[jason]

I don't find value as it relates to football performance. Unless you can find actual studies that have been proven to suggest that it does then I'd be more open to accepting that belief. As I mentioned above, there is just so many inconsistencies.

 

I think the proof you seek is not available to those of us not working for Wonderlic. But, quite simply, from the website, "Critical thinking, comprehension, learning ability, and decision making are a few of the valuable skills and abilities measured by the Wonderlic test."

 

If someone bombs the Wonderlic, it's either ignorance, genuine stupidity, or apathy. None of those are positive attributes, particularly when it's for a test that is incredibly easy, requires minimum preparation, and is widely regarded as a mental measuring stick. If I'm doing the hiring, I'd prefer guys who aren't complete dumbasses. As for proof, this is the best I could do on short notice, "strongly associated with overall intellectual functioning".

[Bears4Ever_34]

I think the proof you seek is not available to those of us not working for Wonderlic. But, quite simply, from the website, "Critical thinking, comprehension, learning ability, and decision making are a few of the valuable skills and abilities measured by the Wonderlic test."

 

If someone bombs the Wonderlic, it's either ignorance, genuine stupidity, or apathy. None of those are positive attributes, particularly when it's for a test that is incredibly easy, requires minimum preparation, and is widely regarded as a mental measuring stick. If I'm doing the hiring, I'd prefer guys who aren't complete dumbasses. As for proof, this is the best I could do on short notice, "strongly associated with overall intellectual functioning".

 

These guys aren't signing up to be chemical engineers, they are here to play football. You don't have to be a smart person to be good at playing football.

 

"A 2009 study by Brian D. Lyons, Brian J. Hoffman, and John W. Michel found that Wonderlic scores failed to positively and significantly predict future NFL performance for any position."

 

That is a snippet from Wikipedia, but the fact of the matter is you really don't even need the studies to know that it's true.

 

I'm clear on what the test is suppose to cover. I'm still not sure about how any of that relates to what you do on the field.