OLine/2013

[Alaskan Grizzly]

He had a 3rd Round Grade.

 

And both Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi were 1st round grades....

[scs787]

Long comes in as a OG and somewhere somebody says he has a LT body,ok, maybe one day he plays there but it wont be until Bushrod is gone. Mills get drafted as a OT, it is suggested he could play OG so right away that means he is going to play guard. I understand OLineman could actually play different positions, but your way off AGAIN on your projections.

 

Webb is a good LT: shifted to RT and bringing in competition suggests somebody running the team now doesnt like the tape they have on his play.

Tebow as a backup: it aint happening, no matter what you think.

When I have time I will go thru and look at all the suggestions you had that never materialized and will post them. I actually thought you were sharp.

 

 

Lol please dont question my sharpness.

[bowlingtwig]

Lol please dont question my sharpness.

Your right. Could be here a very long time lol

[scs787]

Your right. Could be here a very long time lol

 

 

You're* right, we could. If someone else wants to question my sharpness I'll be ok with that. But to be questioned by some people on here is a laugher.

 

[adam]

I love your picture, it is a good mix of Bears and ass, I am not so creative, I just went ass.

Thanks, that was my goal.

[jason]

I suggest not. Continuity for OL is more important than overall talent. Once we find some pieces that work this year, they should remain in place next year. You are suggesting an 80% change next year, after an 80% change this year. Can't do it.

 

We will all see the OL struggle initially and hopefully find their stride toward the end of the season. Once the season is over, I can only see one or two tweaks in the off season. One will be C and the maybe would be on the right side.

 

That is only partially true.

 

If you put the following OL (in their primes) together they would dominate without continuity on day one so much that any RB in the NFL could produce a 2000yd season:

Johnathan Ogden, John Hannah, Mike Webster, Larry Allen, Jackie Slater

 

Continuity is not more important than overall talent. It's only more important when the talent is weaker.

[Mongo3451]

That is only partially true.

 

If you put the following OL (in their primes) together they would dominate without continuity on day one so much that any RB in the NFL could produce a 2000yd season:

Johnathan Ogden, John Hannah, Mike Webster, Larry Allen, Jackie Slater

 

Continuity is not more important than overall talent. It's only more important when the talent is weaker.

So, the time it's partially not true is when you assemble the greatest offensive line of all time. There is nothing you will ever say to convince me otherwise on the importance of continuity. I invite you to seriously try though.

[jason]

So, the time it's partially not true is when you assemble the greatest offensive line of all time. There is nothing you will ever say to convince me otherwise on the importance of continuity. I invite you to seriously try though.

 

I think you're looking at it without giving yourself all options. You're saying continuity or talent. Think about it like math. If talent and continuity are both 1-10, then there is a delicate balance.

 

8 talent with 2 continuity is better than 3 talent with 7 continuity. It's not simply 8+2=10 and 3+7=10. I don't give a damn how long you and I play together, we aren't going to be better than even the worst offensive lineman in the entire NFL.

 

In terms of players, however, you should explain 2010 to me. FOUR returning starters: Omiyale, Williams, Kreutz, and Garza.

 

 

 

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

And both Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi were 1st round grades....

Yikes... :/

[Stinger226]

You're* right, we could. If someone else wants to question my sharpness I'll be ok with that. But to be questioned by some people on here is a laugher.

Laughter is the key word. Webb,Tebow, the laughs just keep on coming.

[Mongo3451]

I think you're looking at it without giving yourself all options. You're saying continuity or talent. Think about it like math. If talent and continuity are both 1-10, then there is a delicate balance.

 

8 talent with 2 continuity is better than 3 talent with 7 continuity. It's not simply 8+2=10 and 3+7=10. I don't give a damn how long you and I play together, we aren't going to be better than even the worst offensive lineman in the entire NFL.

 

In terms of players, however, you should explain 2010 to me. FOUR returning starters: Omiyale, Williams, Kreutz, and Garza.

Some reading material. There's a lot more where that came from.

 

http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-oakland...-offensive-line

http://www.orangepower.com/threads/gp-offe...tinuity.161443/

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01...randon-marshall

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-poi...ntinuity-scores

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/2/13/3...rsonnel-changes

[scs787]

Laughter is the key word. Webb,Tebow, the laughs just keep on coming.

 

Just stop it. You of all people should never question anyones sharpness. I'm gonna leave it at that. If you continue to try to question me I will go off and I will get banned....Which is cool with me because I feel my IQ drop here quite often.

 

 

[bowlingtwig]

Just stop it. You of all people should never question anyones sharpness. I'm gonna leave it at that. If you continue to try to question me I will go off and I will get banned....Which is cool with me because I feel my IQ drop here quite often.

Its not very often but I agree with him. U talk a lot about stats but only stats that fit your argument while completely ignoring all other facts that any one tries pointing out to u. U remind me so much of my brother. Someone who must be right 100% of time no matter what. Just accept facts that obviously this front office disagrees with u on tebow especially

[scs787]

Its not very often but I agree with him. U talk a lot about stats but only stats that fit your argument while completely ignoring all other facts that any one tries pointing out to u. U remind me so much of my brother. Someone who must be right 100% of time no matter what. Just accept facts that obviously this front office disagrees with u on tebow especially

 

I'm ok with my opinion being different from "what the Bears believe" or the Bears not "doing what I say". But this is a message board, on message boards, esp in the offseason when there's no football to discuss we offer up opinions, and then we defend those opinions am I right? It just so happens that my defense goes further than just "OMG this guy sucks" or "OMG this guy is the shit" or "freak so and so", I back up my opinion with all I've got. Why? Because I'm not a sheep who's gonna follow everyone elses opinion because other people disagree with me. Like I said in the new Cutler thread, I relate to Cutler a lot in that I can care less what other people say about me. But it's when my "sharpness" gets questioned by a guy who made a thread asking people to post pictures of tits and ass and then used the word "Class" when someone obliged, that is when I care, or take offense. It's the pot calling the kettle black and it really bothers me and I will not let it slide without making a remark of my displeasure.

[Stinger226]

I'm ok with my opinion being different from "what the Bears believe" or the Bears not "doing what I say". But this is a message board, on message boards, esp in the offseason when there's no football to discuss we offer up opinions, and then we defend those opinions am I right? It just so happens that my defense goes further than just "OMG this guy sucks" or "OMG this guy is the shit" or "freak so and so", I back up my opinion with all I've got. Why? Because I'm not a sheep who's gonna follow everyone elses opinion because other people disagree with me. Like I said in the new Cutler thread, I relate to Cutler a lot in that I can care less what other people say about me. But it's when my "sharpness" gets questioned by a guy who made a thread asking people to post pictures of tits and ass and then used the word "Class" when someone obliged, that is when I care, or take offense. It's the pot calling the kettle black and it really bothers me and I will not let it slide without making a remark of my displeasure.

It is quite simple we both annoy each other and we all understand your opinions are much more valuable than mine, so I would never wish for you to go OFF on me, so from now I will not respond to your posts. There are enough people on here that give you shit about your well thought out ideas, I will just sit back and enjoy that. Your so right about the (do me a favor)post that is classless, I will try to find a picture representing class like yours. I am sorry my picture offended you.

[jason]

Some reading material. There's a lot more where that came from.

 

1. http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-oakland...-offensive-line

2. http://www.orangepower.com/threads/gp-offe...tinuity.161443/

3. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01...randon-marshall

4. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-poi...ntinuity-scores

5. http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/2/13/3...rsonnel-changes

 

I can use google too. But in reference to your post:

1. Nothing but platitudes and a different team, excuses from a HC who had a garbage team and could be in danger of losing his job this season.

2. See #1. Also, this could be used against you. The Vikings had PERFECT OL continuity, yet they only managed 14th in points and 20th in yards while watching Adrian Peterson go for one of the best seasons by a RB in history.

3. Political correctness when saying, "The Bears' OL sucked" is not an option.

4. Actually disproves what you're trying to say. The Bears OL in 2009 (Pace-Omiyale-Kreutz-Garza-Williams) was horrible and they're 12th in continuity.

5. See #1, but more specifically a shallow, 1 out of 5 attempt to explain what was wrong with the Cowboys, when the answer is much more complex.

 

Look, I'm not saying continuity isn't important. But talent trumps continuity. Why are you being so stupid about this? It's very simple. Take 5 great players who don't know one another and they'll do well. Let them play 3 years together and they will dominate. Take 5 guys from this board and they will suck. Let them play 10 years together and they will still suck. You can take continuity, and I'll take Bushrod replacing Webb.

 

Funny that OL continuity is such an important issue, but DLs regularly rotate out and it's considered a smarter approach. Is DL continuity completely unimportant?

[jason]

I'm ok with my opinion being different from "what the Bears believe" or the Bears not "doing what I say". But this is a message board, on message boards, esp in the offseason when there's no football to discuss we offer up opinions, and then we defend those opinions am I right? It just so happens that my defense goes further than just "OMG this guy sucks" or "OMG this guy is the shit" or "freak so and so", I back up my opinion with all I've got. Why? Because I'm not a sheep who's gonna follow everyone elses opinion because other people disagree with me. Like I said in the new Cutler thread, I relate to Cutler a lot in that I can care less what other people say about me. But it's when my "sharpness" gets questioned by a guy who made a thread asking people to post pictures of tits and ass and then used the word "Class" when someone obliged, that is when I care, or take offense. It's the pot calling the kettle black and it really bothers me and I will not let it slide without making a remark of my displeasure.

 

The bold part I agree with very much. Regardless of how incredibly wrong you are about Webb, the fact remains that some decisions by the team can be questioned simply because they never allow our alternate reality to play out into reality. Until that happens, we can never know if we were right or not. For instance, the Bears have apparently stated they do not want anything to do with Tebow. The majority of the board agrees. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a better option than McCown, or do better should Cutler go down. It's an unknown that can never truly be defended one way or the other. But that's the entire point of a message board. Otherwise it would be a whole bunch of braindead reporting of what the Bears did and each member of the board replying with, "Yep!" or "Uh-huh."

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Its not very often but I agree with him. U talk a lot about stats but only stats that fit your argument while completely ignoring all other facts that any one tries pointing out to u. U remind me so much of my brother. Someone who must be right 100% of time no matter what. Just accept facts that obviously this front office disagrees with u on tebow especially

 

In SCS' defense I'm not so sure that assumption is correct. He just recently used the words "I've never thought of it that way" while replying to a post in a few different occasions. So to suggest he's completely closed minded would be false.

 

As far as the front office agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, i don't know that anyone else here can necessarily guarantee that either.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Whoops, not sure how but I double posted, or something..

[scs787]

It is quite simple we both annoy each other and we all understand your opinions are much more valuable than mine, so I would never wish for you to go OFF on me, so from now I will not respond to your posts. There are enough people on here that give you shit about your well thought out ideas, I will just sit back and enjoy that. Your so right about the (do me a favor)post that is classless, I will try to find a picture representing class like yours. I am sorry my picture offended you.

 

 

I really don't mind if you reply to my posts, I enjoy a good debate. Just never question my "sharpness", or never question anyones "sharpness" for that matter, it's childish and it's something that should not be done on a message board. You can just offer up your opinion like I do mine and we'll be just fine.

 

The bold part I agree with very much. Regardless of how incredibly wrong you are about Webb, the fact remains that some decisions by the team can be questioned simply because they never allow our alternate reality to play out into reality. Until that happens, we can never know if we were right or not. For instance, the Bears have apparently stated they do not want anything to do with Tebow. The majority of the board agrees. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a better option than McCown, or do better should Cutler go down. It's an unknown that can never truly be defended one way or the other. But that's the entire point of a message board. Otherwise it would be a whole bunch of braindead reporting of what the Bears did and each member of the board replying with, "Yep!" or "Uh-huh."

 

 

Exactly. And to this day I will still defend my point on the whole Webb vs Bushrod situation. That point being if you give Webb the kind of protection Bushrod had in Nola that he would be just as good as Bushrod or at the very least he would be more highly thought of than he has been here in chicago. I profiled the type of protection Bushrod got on here pretty extensively here to further validate my point but no one here was taking it and you all were taking it as I was saying more than I really was....I think AZ was the only one who really understood my point.

 

Much like we won't be able to see if Tebow>McCown we won't be able to see if Webb would hold up even better than he did when he gets constant help from his LG.

 

In SCS' defense I'm not so sure that assumption is correct. He just recently used the words "I've never thought of it that way" while replying to a post in a few different occasions. So to suggest he's completely closed minded would be false.

 

As far as the front office agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, i don't know that anyone else here can necessarily guarantee that either.

 

 

Thank you sir, you are exactly right. If someone offers up a valid argument that stumps me I will admit that I am wrong or acknowledge that I didn't think of it that way.

[bowlingtwig]

I really don't mind if you reply to my posts, I enjoy a good debate. Just never question my "sharpness", or never question anyones "sharpness" for that matter, it's childish and it's something that should not be done on a message board. You can just offer up your opinion like I do mine and we'll be just fine.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. And to this day I will still defend my point on the whole Webb vs Bushrod situation. That point being if you give Webb the kind of protection Bushrod had in Nola that he would be just as good as Bushrod or at the very least he would be more highly thought of than he has been here in chicago. I profiled the type of protection Bushrod got on here pretty extensively here to further validate my point but no one here was taking it and you all were taking it as I was saying more than I really was....I think AZ was the only one who really understood my point.

 

Much like we won't be able to see if Tebow>McCown we won't be able to see if Webb would hold up even better than he did when he gets constant help from his LG.

 

 

 

 

Thank you sir, you are exactly right. If someone offers up a valid argument that stumps me I will admit that I am wrong or acknowledge that I didn't think of it that way.

Here's a deal then. We won't question your "sharpness". If u don't question us. U questioned mine a little while ago but I ignored it since u don't know me at all

[scs787]

Here's a deal then. We won't question your "sharpness". If u don't question us. U questioned mine a little while ago but I ignored it since u don't know me at all

 

 

Hmm, in what thread did I do this? Did you attack me first? If you question me first then all bets are off.

[jason]

Exactly. And to this day I will still defend my point on the whole Webb vs Bushrod situation. That point being if you give Webb the kind of protection Bushrod had in Nola that he would be just as good as Bushrod or at the very least he would be more highly thought of than he has been here in chicago. I profiled the type of protection Bushrod got on here pretty extensively here to further validate my point but no one here was taking it and you all were taking it as I was saying more than I really was....I think AZ was the only one who really understood my point.

 

Oh, make no mistake; I understood you. I just think you're absolutely wrong. Take away Bushrod's awesome OGs and you'll still find he's pretty good. The same couldn't be said about Webb. However, I never wished you wouldn't post. Just that you would see reason - based upon ample game film of Webb sucking the previous couple years - and stop insisting he should start.

[scs787]

Oh, make no mistake; I understood you. I just think you're absolutely wrong. Take away Bushrod's awesome OGs and you'll still find he's pretty good. The same couldn't be said about Webb. However, I never wished you wouldn't post. Just that you would see reason - based upon ample game film of Webb sucking the previous couple years - and stop insisting he should start.

 

Thing is I saw what happened when they took away Bushrod's awesome OGs and he looked very Webb like. Webb in the 2 games I focused on only him never got the same protection that JB had, and my point was had he gotten that same protection things would have been different. Now that the JB vs JW debate is over my point can really be Kromer vs Tice, when you really look at it. Or a LT on an island vs LT and a LG argument as to which situation gives the LT a better chance to survive vs the likes of Aldon Smith or Clay Matthews.

[lemonej]

Oh, make no mistake; I understood you. I just think you're absolutely wrong. Take away Bushrod's awesome OGs and you'll still find he's pretty good. The same couldn't be said about Webb. However, I never wished you wouldn't post. Just that you would see reason - based upon ample game film of Webb sucking the previous couple years - and stop insisting he should start.

Jason I agree with you and didn't Bushrod make a pro bowl or 2? So either he was voted in or named to replace someone. If that is the case some of the players that playin the league acknowledge his talent or the league office that names the replacements for injured players and those participating in the SB. I don't think that recognition is based on who was playing next to him.

 

Webb OTOH was rushed onto the field after being a Tice favorite and wasn't ready to be on the field IMO then after one year he is switched to the other side. Webb was considered raw and a project coming out and in many ways still is. He and Lance Louis should be viewed in a similar manner and Louis clearly showed solid improvement and drew interest from another team in FA even though injured and rehabbing. Right now there is no market for Webb.