OLine/2013

[jason]

That has been my point this whole offseason so I absolutely agree. We won't be leaving Webb, or anyone really, out there on an island with the likes of Aldon Smith or Clay Matthews. No one in the league is gonna lock those guys down 1v1 so it was silly to have Webb, who a lot of people deem god awful, out there trying to block those guys 1v1....it certainly will be nice to have Kromer running things on the OL.

 

The problem is, many acknowledged that point, but still said that Webb was worse (hence your mockery of my tagline). You tried to prove otherwise with the flawed statistics. You equated the two players before Bushrod even signed. You pointed to stats as validation of your beliefs and mentioned them alongside Emery as if it were his single source of info. That all blew up when Emery decided to sign Bushrod, which displaced Webb, then drafted a player with the intention of giving more challenge to Webb. All of this points to the facts that: Emery doesn't like Webb as much as you thought he might, and that he believes Bushrod is far superior to Webb (which everyone believes other than you, Lovie, Tice, and Webb's family).

[scs787]

The problem is, many acknowledged that point, but still said that Webb was worse (hence your mockery of my tagline). You tried to prove otherwise with the flawed statistics. You equated the two players before Bushrod even signed. You pointed to stats as validation of your beliefs and mentioned them alongside Emery as if it were his single source of info. That all blew up when Emery decided to sign Bushrod, which displaced Webb, then drafted a player with the intention of giving more challenge to Webb. All of this points to the facts that: Emery doesn't like Webb as much as you thought he might, and that he believes Bushrod is far superior to Webb (which everyone believes other than you, Lovie, Tice, and Webb's family).

 

There are others out there as well. Like the guys at PFF. I went beyond stats and broke down 2 games and my point remained the same. We can't truly know how much better Webb would be if he had the same kind of help Bushrod or the other way around but it's hard not to say that if Webb got constant help from an OG that he wouldn't have been much better. A good deal of the sacks he gave up were against Aldon and Clay, if the Bears used Nolas method of helping out against the other teams best pass rusher don't you think Webb would have done a much better job?

[50england50]

Come the regular season if Webb is the starting RT then you will have been vindicated to a certain degree however if Scott, Vladimir or Mills start then it will be apparent he is not enough at either tackle spot regardless of being put on an island, given whatever help and better quality coaching. Mind you as I have stated previously if someone has better at centre then the majority of our oline concerns will be sorted. in our division we face Raji, Su and the Minnesota tackles get a centre who can provide a bit of a push and then we can dominate the division.

[Stinger226]

There are others out there as well. Like the guys at PFF. I went beyond stats and broke down 2 games and my point remained the same. We can't truly know how much better Webb would be if he had the same kind of help Bushrod or the other way around but it's hard not to say that if Webb got constant help from an OG that he wouldn't have been much better. A good deal of the sacks he gave up were against Aldon and Clay, if the Bears used Nolas method of helping out against the other teams best pass rusher don't you think Webb would have done a much better job?

The tape on Webb was from last year, you cant say woulda, coulda, shoulda. He didnt play in NO offense scheme. He has been deemed not good enough to play the left side, and was moved to the right side. Kromer is now part of these decisions. They have brought in competition for the RT job. If the powers that be thought he was going to be good enough they wouldnt have resigned Scott and drafted Mills. I hope he succeeds because that means my team will be better, but why I have my doubts is most players make the most improvement in the third year,he did not. We cant pretend IF, facts are he wasnt good enough. I guess Emery and Kromer just didnt put enough validity in PFF.

[scs787]

The tape on Webb was from last year, you cant say woulda, coulda, shoulda. He didnt play in NO offense scheme. He has been deemed not good enough to play the left side, and was moved to the right side. Kromer is now part of these decisions. They have brought in competition for the RT job. If the powers that be thought he was going to be good enough they wouldnt have resigned Scott and drafted Mills. I hope he succeeds because that means my team will be better, but why I have my doubts is most players make the most improvement in the third year,he did not. We cant pretend IF, facts are he wasnt good enough. I guess Emery and Kromer just didnt put enough validity in PFF.

 

The tape was from the San Fran game from this past year, not sure why that is being viewed as a non valid game to view. Bushrods game was vs the same defense. Maybe the Bears want 2 solid tackles and thats why brought in Bushrod, who came fairly cheap....I know it's kinda woulda coulda shoulda, but I believe there's really no denying that if you give a mediocre LT constant mauling help from a LG he will look really good. That's my point. If you eliminate the space that gave Webb trouble then there's no trouble.

 

There is really no end to this argument because I won't change my stance on this.

[Stinger226]

The tape was from the San Fran game from this past year, not sure why that is being viewed as a non valid game to view. Bushrods game was vs the same defense. Maybe the Bears want 2 solid tackles and thats why brought in Bushrod, who came fairly cheap....I know it's kinda woulda coulda shoulda, but I believe there's really no denying that if you give a mediocre LT constant mauling help from a LG he will look really good. That's my point. If you eliminate the space that gave Webb trouble then there's no trouble.

 

There is really no end to this argument because I won't change my stance on this.

I wasnt referring to your two games you RANDOMLY choose. I was talking in general. It doesnt matter if you change your position on the matter. I still have an argument from 3rd grade, (Linda liked me best), Im not changing my mind on that either. So we have something in common, in-significate past memories .I guess there is a difference, I havent brought mine up since 4th grade.

[scs787]

I wasnt referring to your two games you RANDOMLY choose. I was talking in general. It doesnt matter if you change your position on the matter. I still have an argument from 3rd grade, (Linda liked me best), Im not changing my mind on that either. So we have something in common, in-significate past memories .I guess there is a difference, I havent brought mine up since 4th grade.

 

Uh it wasn't random at all, I picked 2 games against the best defense in the league (San Fran) on purpose. I also haven't brought it up, it gets brought up by others and I have to go back and defend what I said again.

 

I also chose Webbs worst game so it's not def not cherry picking here.

 

Let me put my whole argument into simpler terms instead of babbling on and on. Do you disagree that Webb AND Long/Slausson on Clay Matthews gives the Bears a better chance to contain CM than Webb alone? Put in that situation wouldn't Webb become a vastly better player?

 

Look guys, believe or not before this offseason I too was a Webb hater until I actually looked into the situation. Yes, it started with PFF but I was still as skeptical as you guys until I dug deeper and actually watched the tape. The tape matched up with all info and it wasn't till that point that my opinion was set in stone.

 

I do welcome Bushrod and Kromer aboard though.

[lemonej]

Most of us who are critical of Webb are basing it on all 16 games when he would get beat off the snap or make stupid penalties to kill plays and stall drives. Against Aldon Smith on national TV he was getting pushed into the backfield by a smaller player.The way that looked tells me he is not strong at the point of attack and doesn't anchor himself. That is not good for any O lineman. During the 9er game the whole OL got trashed and since that is one of the teams you need to beat to get to the SB then that game tape should serve as a measuring stick.GB our rival and top team in our division has a player that has killed Webb routinely. The only elite pass rusher I feel he has had some success against is Jared Allen prior to the last game they played when he abused Webb also. I will admit that the offense as a whole wasn't great but it all starts upfront. There have been too many additions this offseason at the OT position for me to believe this new staff was happy with the performance of any of the holdover players.

[Stinger226]

Most of us who are critical of Webb are basing it on all 16 games when he would get beat off the snap or make stupid penalties to kill plays and stall drives. Against Aldon Smith on national TV he was getting pushed into the backfield by a smaller player.The way that looked tells me he is not strong at the point of attack and doesn't anchor himself. That is not good for any O lineman. During the 9er game the whole OL got trashed and since that is one of the teams you need to beat to get to the SB then that game tape should serve as a measuring stick.GB our rival and top team in our division has a player that has killed Webb routinely. The only elite pass rusher I feel he has had some success against is Jared Allen prior to the last game they played when he abused Webb also. I will admit that the offense as a whole wasn't great but it all starts upfront. There have been too many additions this offseason at the OT position for me to believe this new staff was happy with the performance of any of the holdover players.

That was stated well as almost everyone on here follows that line of thinking. This has been debated for a long time,and I am sure when the OLine gets brought again this will be brought up again, but why. Webb is no longer a Lt,he never played with Carl Nicks, all he can do now is to try to play well enough to stay on the team,and win the job if he can.Bushrod was an all pro by his third season, not losing his job. PFf is a good stats site,but we don't care,Bears don't care and it no longer matters.

[scs787]

Most of us who are critical of Webb are basing it on all 16 games when he would get beat off the snap or make stupid penalties to kill plays and stall drives. Against Aldon Smith on national TV he was getting pushed into the backfield by a smaller player.The way that looked tells me he is not strong at the point of attack and doesn't anchor himself. That is not good for any O lineman. During the 9er game the whole OL got trashed and since that is one of the teams you need to beat to get to the SB then that game tape should serve as a measuring stick.GB our rival and top team in our division has a player that has killed Webb routinely. The only elite pass rusher I feel he has had some success against is Jared Allen prior to the last game they played when he abused Webb also. I will admit that the offense as a whole wasn't great but it all starts upfront. There have been too many additions this offseason at the OT position for me to believe this new staff was happy with the performance of any of the holdover players.

 

Bushrod was getting pushed back by Smith as well when he wasn't getting help from the LG and that's part of my point. When he didn't get the help he looked very Webb like. The difference though is Webb was going solo every single snap, and believe it or not held his own quite a few times.

 

Webb wasn't abused in any game last year vs Allen, he held him in check both games. He also pretty much held Cliff Avril in check the 2 games vs the Lions. He holds his own vs DEs, it's the fast LBs who can beat him in space that give him problems. The Saints line eliminated the space by putting 2 guys on those dynamic pass rushing LBs.

 

Like stinger keeps saying this is an old issue though so there's no need to keep bringing it up because I will continue to defend my "stupid" argument.

 

If we wanna debate Webb vs Scott vs Mills vs Carimi then that's a more up to date argument.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

My guess is that the starting OL is Webb-Long-Garza-Slauson-Webb, and I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. To me though, Scott should hold the tiebreaker. He was pretty damn good at RT last year, and I don't want Webb to get the job just because he's young.

[scs787]

My guess is that the starting OL is Webb-Long-Garza-Slauson-Webb, and I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. To me though, Scott should hold the tiebreaker. He was pretty damn good at RT last year, and I don't want Webb to get the job just because he's young.

 

You must love Webb more than me lol.

 

One things for sure this year is there's not gonna be any favoritism on the line so whoever gets the RT position will have earned it. If it is indeed Webb I don't wanna hear anyone complain.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

You must love Webb more than me lol.

 

One things for sure this year is there's not gonna be any favoritism on the line so whoever gets the RT position will have earned it. If it is indeed Webb I don't wanna hear anyone complain.

Oops. I definitely meant Bushrod at LT.

[Stinger226]

Oops. I definitely meant Bushrod at LT.

I think that is how it should play out but : if Long just isnt ready to start yet in the NFL, then I think either Brown or Britton might start.

I think Garza, no matter what will be the center, but do we keep E. Williams if he gets hurt?

If Carmi finds himself, does that mean he starts at RT or maybe RG?

I think the sleeper here could be James Brown, even though we brought in a lot of veterans, he may be better.

There will be a lot of competition for every spot minus LT.

What happens if Bushrod gets hurt? Does Webb move back? Does Long get threw in the fire at LT, of which is where I eventually expect him to play.

[scs787]

I think that is how it should play out but : if Long just isnt ready to start yet in the NFL, then I think either Brown or Britton might start.

I think Garza, no matter what will be the center, but do we keep E. Williams if he gets hurt?

If Carmi finds himself, does that mean he starts at RT or maybe RG?

I think the sleeper here could be James Brown, even though we brought in a lot of veterans, he may be better.

There will be a lot of competition for every spot minus LT.

What happens if Bushrod gets hurt? Does Webb move back? Does Long get threw in the fire at LT, of which is where I eventually expect him to play.

 

A whole lot of questions that should be interesting to see play out. I wish we could fast forward to week 1 already!

[bradjock]

My guess is that the starting OL is Webb-Long-Garza-Slauson-Webb, and I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. To me though, Scott should hold the tiebreaker. He was pretty damn good at RT last year, and I don't want Webb to get the job just because he's young.

 

I pretty much agree except for two things:

1. Are we thinking Long will be the starting LG or RG? Slauson initially lined up at LG during mini-camp.

2. I wouldn't completely count out Carimi. If he's healthy, his talent is superior to Slauson. No team was willing to give Slauson more than the minimum. Why does everyone think he's that good?

 

In short, I think Carimi, Long, and Slauson will battle for the 2 guard spots, and it will be Webb vs. Scott at RT.

 

 

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I pretty much agree except for two things:

1. Are we thinking Long will be the starting LG or RG? Slauson initially lined up at LG during mini-camp.

2. I wouldn't completely count out Carimi. If he's healthy, his talent is superior to Slauson. No team was willing to give Slauson more than the minimum. Why does everyone think he's that good?

 

In short, I think Carimi, Long, and Slauson will battle for the 2 guard spots, and it will be Webb vs. Scott at RT.

Carimi has been a Bear for 2 years. He was horrible at RT and wasn't good at G. Slauson was a damn good G last year, especially in terms of pass blocking, playing for a bad offense. Slauson > Louis

[scs787]

Carimi has been a Bear for 2 years. He was horrible at RT and wasn't good at G. Slauson was a damn good G last year, especially in terms of pass blocking, playing for a bad offense. Slauson > Louis

 

Agreed. I know a lot of guys on here are sour on the whole PFF thing but Slausson has had a positive rating the past 3 years. He didn't give up a single sack last year. He's a solid player.

[50england50]

,Like I stated previously on another thread Carimi was injured the 1st year and the 2nd played gingerly lost weight,looked weak (at the combine and coming out of college Carimi was graded as powerful). Also he was graded as having good technique and the only knock on him was athleticism which would not make him an Emery type player. Therefore if he is fully recovered from the injury this year, is training hard in the gym and is schooled by Kromer to play to the best of his ability in his third year he may not end up as a bust.

I just hope the coaching and blocking scheme put in by Tice is the reason our players have not performed and we will never know if this is the reason Chris Williams ended up being cut more to do with Mike Tice than the player although he never started for the Rams last year but is still on the roster. It will be interesting whether they keep him this year now that Jake Long has been signed.