First shot at the GM decisions

[Stinger226]

Since we get to look at the draft now here is what I would have did.

 

Round 1: I would have traded down with Atlanta getting an extra 3rd. Emery said we had the chance but trade value wasnt there.Since I still think we needed to go OL.

Kyle Long/OG

 

Round 2: I would go with the best rated LB instead of Bostic

Arthur Brown/LB

 

Round 3: We got this pick from Atlanta, would fit in as our NB right away and also is a good KR,PR giving us the option to cut Hester.

B.W. Webb/CB

Round 4: Green was a good value here and would stay with that.

K. Green/LB

Round 5: Go with another need here.

Josh Boyd/DT They compare him to Anthony Adams

Round 6: Charle Johnson/WR our speed guy we were looking for

Round 7: Ried Fragel/OT He was rated higher than Hill.

 

[jason]

To do this "we act as a GM"-thing, you can't do trades that didn't happen. You don't know if you could have made the trade.

[fudgeripple2000]

Since we get to look at the draft now here is what I would have did.

 

Round 1: I would have traded down with Atlanta getting an extra 3rd. Emery said we had the chance but trade value wasnt there.Since I still think we needed to go OL.

Kyle Long/OG

 

Round 2: I would go with the best rated LB instead of Bostic

Arthur Brown/LB

 

Round 3: We got this pick from Atlanta, would fit in as our NB right away and also is a good KR,PR giving us the option to cut Hester.

B.W. Webb/CB

Round 4: Green was a good value here and would stay with that.

K. Green/LB

Round 5: Go with another need here.

Josh Boyd/DT They compare him to Anthony Adams

Round 6: Charle Johnson/WR our speed guy we were looking for

Round 7: Ried Fragel/OT He was rated higher than Hill.

 

It's always hard for me to put myself in the place of a man that made a decision after hours of meetings with his coaches as to their preferences, months of time and overtime from area scouts to create evaluations. Kiper, Mayock and the like rate players which creates the mock drafts which feeds our brains as to what our team may or may not need. I am a doctor and I have always found humor in patients that come in my office and say they "heard on the radio that...". Never mind the years of college, years of study, and years of research. Some guy on the radio is dialed in as to the right direction to take.

[rockren]

I am a doctor and I have always found humor in patients that come in my office and say they "heard on the radio that...". Never mind the years of college, years of study, and years of research. Some guy on the radio is dialed in as to the right direction to take.

 

Don't you love it when people tell you how to do your job? A job that took you extensive schooling, training, researching and being given by that job by top notch people?

 

I agree we need to let Emery work a bit more before jumping down his throat.

 

I feel very very good about Emery's draft.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Since we get to look at the draft now here is what I would have did.

 

Round 1: I would have traded down with Atlanta getting an extra 3rd. Emery said we had the chance but trade value wasnt there.Since I still think we needed to go OL.

Kyle Long/OG

 

Round 2: I would go with the best rated LB instead of Bostic

Arthur Brown/LB

 

Round 3: We got this pick from Atlanta, would fit in as our NB right away and also is a good KR,PR giving us the option to cut Hester.

B.W. Webb/CB

Round 4: Green was a good value here and would stay with that.

K. Green/LB

Round 5: Go with another need here.

Josh Boyd/DT They compare him to Anthony Adams

Round 6: Charle Johnson/WR our speed guy we were looking for

Round 7: Ried Fragel/OT He was rated higher than Hill.

So you wanted a guy who has been compared to Anthony Adams? Anthony Adams was awful.

[azbearsfan]

It's always hard for me to put myself in the place of a man that made a decision after hours of meetings with his coaches as to their preferences, months of time and overtime from area scouts to create evaluations. Kiper, Mayock and the like rate players which creates the mock drafts which feeds our brains as to what our team may or may not need. I am a doctor and I have always found humor in patients that come in my office and say they "heard on the radio that...". Never mind the years of college, years of study, and years of research. Some guy on the radio is dialed in as to the right direction to take.

 

 

This is exactly why it makes me laugh when people on message boards think they could do the job of GM.

[Daventry]

Don't you love it when people tell you how to do your job? A job that took you extensive schooling, training, researching and being given by that job by top notch people?

 

I agree we need to let Emery work a bit more before jumping down his throat.

 

I feel very very good about Emery's draft.

 

 

Excellent point, to pretend that we know as much as guys who have proven themselves at a high level for years seems foolhardy. I can see many here have great knowledge but can't help but thinking that inside/scout information is valuable to say the least.

 

I am going to have confidence in Trestmann/Emery until they give me reason not to.

[jason]

It's always hard for me to put myself in the place of a man that made a decision after hours of meetings with his coaches as to their preferences, months of time and overtime from area scouts to create evaluations. Kiper, Mayock and the like rate players which creates the mock drafts which feeds our brains as to what our team may or may not need. I am a doctor and I have always found humor in patients that come in my office and say they "heard on the radio that...". Never mind the years of college, years of study, and years of research. Some guy on the radio is dialed in as to the right direction to take.

 

There is a massive difference between your schooling and training, and that of the front office folks of sports. Your training, in many way, is irrefutable and supported by ridiculous amounts of testing and quantitative study. There's obviously is not.

 

And if you had the success rate with patients that they do with drafts, I doubt you'd still be a doctor.

[jason]

Excellent point, to pretend that we know as much as guys who have proven themselves at a high level for years seems foolhardy. I can see many here have great knowledge but can't help but thinking that inside/scout information is valuable to say the least.

 

I am going to have confidence in Trestmann/Emery until they give me reason not to.

 

The first paragraph is contradictory to the closing statement. If they knew so much because of their experience/training/whatever, Lovie and JA would have been drafting this year.

 

I think we should distrust these guys until they prove success.

[balta1701-A]

I think we should distrust these guys until they prove success.

If this group doesn't produce this year, and the top 2 guys from last year (SMC and Jeffery) don't step up, these guys won't have very long of a leash. If those guys don't perform this year, then the last thing they have to try is switching QB's before the heat is seriously on Emery.

[LT2_3]

Every year I make the same points:

 

1. The front offices definitely have more information at their disposal than any mere fans do regarding the prospects.

 

2. The front offices definitely have a better idea what the true team needs are than any mere mere fans or even the draft "experts" for that matter.

 

3. Mock drafts can be entertaining, but are ultimately a waste of time. I cracked up when after the 5th pick, Mike Mayock said "Well my mock draft is completely useless now. I have absolutely no confidence on any of these picks going forward."

 

Going into the draft , I felt that LB was by far our biggest need as we had 2 starters on the wrong side of 30 on one year contracts and that we could use some more legitimate talent for the OL.

 

Now I wasn't married to any particular players or positions in any particular round, but am very happy with the outcome. I think the "experts" tend to go about it backwards and fall in love with a player and then try to match it to a team with even a minor need somewhere in the vicinity of the draft that they think they should be picked. IMO, taking a TE in the first round would have been completely moronic unless Trestman was saying that another good TE was more important than keeping Cutler from being creamed or creating lanes for our RB or than making sure our defense doesn't collapse with a few key injuries down the stretch. Now I like big guys who can create mismatches down the field as much as the next guy, but we picked up a pretty good one in FA and we've got a couple of pretty big WRs too. A TE would have been a luxury pick that we couldn't afford. I do have to admit though that it was a particularly effective smokescreen.

 

Anyone panning the Kyle Long pick or calling it a reach wasn't watching the actual draft closely enough. Did they miss the fact that 3 of the top 4 picks were OT and 2 of the top 10 were G? We got a guy that currently plays guard (albeit with little high grade experience) but played well at the end of last year and also projects to OLT ultimately. Isn't there incredible value there? I haven't found anyone that says they didn't like like Long as a prospect, but that he was taken too early - or was a reach.

 

The problem with that perspective is that the NFL didn't agree with them - probably because anyone calling it a reach didn't predict that six of the top 11 picks or 7 of the top 19 picks would OL either. That run on those positions automatically bumped all the remaining prospects up everyone's board. Simply put, even if the Bears had traded back a few picks, there's no saying that he wouldn't have been gone by the position they had traded back to either by someone one taking Long with their pick (I read that Indy and Dallas were interested in him in the first too) or someone trading up ahead of us to take him. Anyone who would call him a reach in those circumstances is probably stuck too close to their own opinions that were formed before the draft and the run on OL began.

 

In today's day and age, the concept of BPA in a pure form doesn't exist. Good teams will trade up or down (if possible) to get the guy they want where they are roughly projected to go. The problem is that you have to have a plan B in case your guy gets sniped (online auction term) before your traded back position comes up. In the case of Long - there were only 2 more OL taken in the next 20 picks - and one of them was Jerry Jones taking a center that completely delighted everyone picking behind him and confused everyone else.

 

On the subject of whether we should trust the FO or not, I don't think it's a matter of trust. It's not like we can do anything about it. It's whether we feel the need to bitch and moan when they don't do precisely what we think they should. I judge things based on my feeling on how they addressed my perception of our needs (which they did) and whether any of the "experts" liked our draft - and some of them did. You can't expect them all to like it. They get paid for controversy in the form of page hits. If you didn't like some decision they made, I'm pretty sure one would be able to find someone to agree with you - at which point some people post the link and go "See! See! This guy agrees with me! I must be right!"

 

I'm satisfied with this draft - I like what they did there.

[Stinger226]

So you wanted a guy who has been compared to Anthony Adams? Anthony Adams was awful.

Anthony Adams was awful last year, he had two decent years here, go back and check it out.

[Stinger226]

It's always hard for me to put myself in the place of a man that made a decision after hours of meetings with his coaches as to their preferences, months of time and overtime from area scouts to create evaluations. Kiper, Mayock and the like rate players which creates the mock drafts which feeds our brains as to what our team may or may not need. I am a doctor and I have always found humor in patients that come in my office and say they "heard on the radio that...". Never mind the years of college, years of study, and years of research. Some guy on the radio is dialed in as to the right direction to take.

Before the draft someone suggested we as a concision do a GM thing, I am not second guessing him just throwing out an opinion.

[Stinger226]

Every year I make the same points:

 

1. The front offices definitely have more information at their disposal than any mere fans do regarding the prospects.

 

2. The front offices definitely have a better idea what the true team needs are than any mere mere fans or even the draft "experts" for that matter.

 

3. Mock drafts can be entertaining, but are ultimately a waste of time. I cracked up when after the 5th pick, Mike Mayock said "Well my mock draft is completely useless now. I have absolutely no confidence on any of these picks going forward."

 

Going into the draft , I felt that LB was by far our biggest need as we had 2 starters on the wrong side of 30 on one year contracts and that we could use some more legitimate talent for the OL.

 

Now I wasn't married to any particular players or positions in any particular round, but am very happy with the outcome. I think the "experts" tend to go about it backwards and fall in love with a player and then try to match it to a team with even a minor need somewhere in the vicinity of the draft that they think they should be picked. IMO, taking a TE in the first round would have been completely moronic unless Trestman was saying that another good TE was more important than keeping Cutler from being creamed or creating lanes for our RB or than making sure our defense doesn't collapse with a few key injuries down the stretch. Now I like big guys who can create mismatches down the field as much as the next guy, but we picked up a pretty good one in FA and we've got a couple of pretty big WRs too. A TE would have been a luxury pick that we couldn't afford. I do have to admit though that it was a particularly effective smokescreen.

 

Anyone panning the Kyle Long pick or calling it a reach wasn't watching the actual draft closely enough. Did they miss the fact that 3 of the top 4 picks were OT and 2 of the top 10 were G? We got a guy that currently plays guard (albeit with little high grade experience) but played well at the end of last year and also projects to OLT ultimately. Isn't there incredible value there? I haven't found anyone that says they didn't like like Long as a prospect, but that he was taken too early - or was a reach.

 

The problem with that perspective is that the NFL didn't agree with them - probably because anyone calling it a reach didn't predict that six of the top 11 picks or 7 of the top 19 picks would OL either. That run on those positions automatically bumped all the remaining prospects up everyone's board. Simply put, even if the Bears had traded back a few picks, there's no saying that he wouldn't have been gone by the position they had traded back to either by someone one taking Long with their pick (I read that Indy and Dallas were interested in him in the first too) or someone trading up ahead of us to take him. Anyone who would call him a reach in those circumstances is probably stuck too close to their own opinions that were formed before the draft and the run on OL began.

 

In today's day and age, the concept of BPA in a pure form doesn't exist. Good teams will trade up or down (if possible) to get the guy they want where they are roughly projected to go. The problem is that you have to have a plan B in case your guy gets sniped (online auction term) before your traded back position comes up. In the case of Long - there were only 2 more OL taken in the next 20 picks - and one of them was Jerry Jones taking a center that completely delighted everyone picking behind him and confused everyone else.

 

On the subject of whether we should trust the FO or not, I don't think it's a matter of trust. It's not like we can do anything about it. It's whether we feel the need to bitch and moan when they don't do precisely what we think they should. I judge things based on my feeling on how they addressed my perception of our needs (which they did) and whether any of the "experts" liked our draft - and some of them did. You can't expect them all to like it. They get paid for controversy in the form of page hits. If you didn't like some decision they made, I'm pretty sure one would be able to find someone to agree with you - at which point some people post the link and go "See! See! This guy agrees with me! I must be right!"

 

I'm satisfied with this draft - I like what they did there.

Jason started the we are smarter than the GM stuff and AZ54 suggested we redo the draft as a thread and see what we come up with and save it for a couple of years to show a comparison.I am not in the camp that thinks we are as smart, but will dive in to a challenge.

[Stinger226]

Don't you love it when people tell you how to do your job? A job that took you extensive schooling, training, researching and being given by that job by top notch people?

 

I agree we need to let Emery work a bit more before jumping down his throat.

 

I feel very very good about Emery's draft.

I am not waving any red flags, you cant judge a draft for 3 years, just going with a suggestion AZ54 had.

[Stinger226]

To do this "we act as a GM"-thing, you can't do trades that didn't happen. You don't know if you could have made the trade.

Some one list a game plan. Emery talked about having some trade options but the trade value chart didnt show an equal value so he didnt do it. Atlanta traded two picks later with St Louis and gave them a 3rd round pick. I guarantee we had that chance. So I threw it in there. Since your the one that started this GM thing debate, lay some ground rules and lets have at it.

[Stinger226]

There is a massive difference between your schooling and training, and that of the front office folks of sports. Your training, in many way, is irrefutable and supported by ridiculous amounts of testing and quantitative study. There's obviously is not.

 

And if you had the success rate with patients that they do with drafts, I doubt you'd still be a doctor.

I have been plumbing for 43 years and find the same situation that people try to tell me how to do my job. I just laugh at them and let it slide out the other ear. Although sometimes someone comes up with a good idea. They have a different perspective that brings a fresh idea once in a while.

[scs787]

We have another thread posted by AZ for this...I suspect a lot of us are ok with the draft and don't wanna participate.

 

I posted my first 3 picks as Floyd/Warford/Greene.

[Stinger226]

We have another thread posted by AZ for this...I suspect a lot of us are ok with the draft and don't wanna participate.

 

I posted my first 3 picks as Floyd/Warford/Greene.

I didnt see that one. This is just for fun, there really isnt anything serious about it.

[mondonico]

"I think we should distrust these guys until they prove success."

 

While I can agree with this statement I also think that if you don't win a SB in 3 -5 years you should be gone. But I am also willing to believe they know better then those of us who are not in their shoes.

 

American pro sports and football more so that any other sport are such a team sport. It truly is at least a four to five+ to even more headed beast. From the players, to the coaches, stadiums, salaries, etc., etc., And for anyone who's lively hood is not directly effected by their choices to claim they know better or could do better is just a joke. And as someone who has said and done so I laugh at myself first.

 

The so called experts on all of the mock draft sites etc. really don't depend on being right. Why hasn't Mel Kiper ever had a real football job. How about Mayock? Who does he work for now and why is he not in some front office job? Don't tell me thay would not love to be the GM of a real team and be working to win a real Super Bowl. Why don't teams who need them just hire them if they are so smart. How many years did M. Lombardi work for anyone other then another NFL team before he was hired by the Browns? How many years will it be before he is back at the NFL channel? Just kidding, I do like him.

 

Why do those who have the real jobs in any sports team have that job?!?! Because they do know more then we do. When you or I know more then they do we will be the ones who have those jobs. It really is that simple. That is after all how Kiper and Mayock got what jobs they have.

 

"Oh yea baby!! John Gruden baby!!" In a Randy Macho accent.

 

John Gruden knows he has a perfect job right now. He won his, er Tony Dungy's Super Bowl, and will continue to live off that and his Chuckie persona for the rest of his life and just pontificate like so many do.

 

Yes there are a few exceptions, some of us do know better. But those who do, usally do. The rest just say they would.

 

Now to this years draft. I think the Bears did the best they could. They picked for needs using the best players available at the time, all things considered. Did every other team? No! Have the Bears done so in the past? Hell no! As a layman I thought the Bears first needed Off. linemen and more then one. Throw in a few LB's. Mix in a DB, a WR, and maybe a special teams player or two and we might have a good draft. I think they did most of that. Now can the players they drafted live up to expectation? Only time and their jobs and those who picked them will tell.

 

IMHO!!

[mondonico]

Oh and on a sexist comment, I think stingers photo is beyond question, world class!!

[Stinger226]

Oh and on a sexist comment, I think stingers photo is beyond question, world class!!

I agree, instead of all those ugly Bear pics, I choose to add beauty. She is from Costa Rica.

[adam]

Like a few have said before, we really can't change the draft in terms of adding trades. The only thing you can do is replace the original selection with someone selected after our pick.

 

So for #20, do you take Long, Floyd, Trufant, Ogletree, Hopkins, or Eifert? Also, you would have to address OL in the first 2 picks, but I don't see any other OL worth #20, so it would have to be Floyd-DT, Trufant-CB, Ogletree-LB, Hopkins-WR, and Eifert-TE in the first.

 

So for the first two rounds, the only logical alternative choices would be:

 

Ogletree and Warford

 

That is the only way to realistically compare the draft to:

 

Long and Bostic

 

I think we did really good from 4-7, so I wouldn't necessarily change anything.

[mondonico]

"She is from Costa Rica"

 

 

If not a family member who is she? May one ask? That is world class!

 

[AZ54]

I agree there is just too much information the GMs and other league insiders have that we will never know (or at least not until someone wants us to know it). Just in the medical information alone they are so far ahead of what we can ever know...all knee injuries are not alike. Gabe Carimi can explain that one. Add in that we can only see games, or game films, or for the vast majority some highlights. Our scouts attend practices. They also talk to college coaches and when possible friends or family of the players they are interested in.

 

http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/vid...e8-c07e8d1c7fe0

 

We also don't know how players like Carimi are doing with their health. We know what we had in him last year and it wasn't good. Is he gaining strength in the bad knee or is it still bothering him? Is it going to be a chronic problem he'll always have to deal with? After this draft I think it's safe to say the new coaches do not have confidence in Carimi returning to form.

 

I still want to complete our own Bearstalk draft. I started another thread designed to select the players we should put on the poll. I've only had input from a couple people so far but would welcome much more. Remember it's not a thread asking who you would pick, it is asking who should be the top 5-7 players on our board. From there we'll put together a poll among those players and choose our first round pick. Then we'll do each subsequent round. This will not be what one individual would choose rather it represent us as a team's coming to a consensus on who to pick in each round. We'll have input from our scouts (Adam, SCS, and many others) Oline coaches (Jason, Mongo), and Pixote will be our GM in case there is a need to break a tie.