The Experts Are Pissin Me Off!

[lemonej]

The whole story about Long being a reach is starting to get to me. He was the 3rd rated OG in most of everyones eyes but the preceding pick the 6th rated OT is not a reach. So as I continue to look at this from a Bear fan's perspective, here is what I see:

 

1st pick comes from a Mid Major conference what was his level of comp.

 

3rd pick Former TE on defense for only 2yrs rarely played with hand in the dirt and this was a trade up.

4th pick Former Juco QB,TE and DE and 2 yr OL

5th pick Enetered school as track athlete,tried basketball first,zero starts before senior year 13 games as Senior 4.5 sacks.

 

6th picks 4.5 sacks and drafted as an edge rusher

 

7th pick an OG in the top 10 (this is rare)

 

8th pick 5-9 174 lb WR in top 10

 

9th pick injured and surgically repaired shoulder and may not be ready fo TC.

 

10th OG in top 10 again rare as well as in the 1st rd.

 

12th pick unable to workout at combine as he recovered from a life threatening injury.

 

16th Raw QB with potential or upside in top 20?

 

19th pick 6th rated OT by some and 45th overall prospect by some is not a reach but the next pick was.

 

 

So thats 12 of the top 20 picks that I feel you could question besides the 20th pick. For all the Bull that we heard about the true value would be in the 2nd round why is it bad that this team took a 2nd rd projected player at a position of need? If you told me that the Bears would get an OL and LB in first 2 picks a couple of months ago I would have been okay with that.

[madlithuanian]

Hub's been grinding his ax for years...

 

I can compartmentalize his comments. I tune him out when I think he's just being douchey.

 

The whole story about Long being a reach is starting to get to me. He was the 3rd rated OG in most of everyones eyes but the preceding pick the 6th rated OT is not a reach. So as I continue to look at this from a Bear fan's perspective, here is what I see:

 

1st pick comes from a Mid Major conference what was his level of comp.

 

3rd pick Former TE on defense for only 2yrs rarely played with hand in the dirt and this was a trade up.

4th pick Former Juco QB,TE and DE and 2 yr OL

5th pick Enetered school as track athlete,tried basketball first,zero starts before senior year 13 games as Senior 4.5 sacks.

 

6th picks 4.5 sacks and drafted as an edge rusher

 

7th pick an OG in the top 10 (this is rare)

 

8th pick 5-9 174 lb WR in top 10

 

9th pick injured and surgically repaired shoulder and may not be ready fo TC.

 

10th OG in top 10 again rare as well as in the 1st rd.

 

12th pick unable to workout at combine as he recovered from a life threatening injury.

 

16th Raw QB with potential or upside in top 20?

 

19th pick 6th rated OT by some and 45th overall prospect by some is not a reach but the next pick was.

 

 

So thats 12 of the top 20 picks that I feel you could question besides the 20th pick. For all the Bull that we heard about the true value would be in the 2nd round why is it bad that this team took a 2nd rd projected player at a position of need? If you told me that the Bears would get an OL and LB in first 2 picks a couple of months ago I would have been okay with that.

 

[Connorbear]

Hub has been a douche since the Bears fired him.

 

Peace

[dawhizz]

You lost me when you put "expert" and "Hub Arkush" in the same sentence.

[lemonej]

The way he reacted when the Bears made the pick saying"Emery Blew The Pick" proves that he is still mad about getting the ax. I still think he is full of himself as well as all of the PFW staff and rarely pays tribute to the man who was instrumental in the success of that publication and that was Joel Buschbaum who was outstanding and Hub took over after he passed away. Like I posted there was 12 picks besides the 20th that you could find something negative to say. I take what a lot of these guys who write about football comments with a grain of salt but the fact that Hub is on the airwaves here quite a bit is what gets to me because that gives him plenty of opportunity to bash the team. NFL Network's Charlie Casserly who has made a draft pick or 2 wasn't critical of the pick and actually said that Longs work during Senior Bowl week showed how well he takes coaching. Tony Wise who coached an Olineman or 2 says that he should windup at LT. So if we have drafted the future LT at 20 how big of a reach is it.

[CrackerDog]

Hub has been a douche since the Bears fired him.

 

Peace

 

Yep, and he was an extreme ass-kisser when they were paying him. So his character has always been an issue.

 

With that said, he has a good football mind when he's not on the fringes.

 

Funny thing about these "experts" is nobody seems to hold them accountable after the fact.

 

Oh, and I'll take Mayock's opinion/valuation of the pick over Hub, regardless.

 

"He's one of my favorite players in the draft. He's immediately a starting guard that down the road is a starting tackle."

-- Mike Mayock

[Bears4Ever_34]

He was a reach because he projected as the 6th or 7th best OL in the draft that you took in the first round when you had guys like Eiffert, Ogletree, and others that were left on the board as #1 or #2 at their positions. The Bears chose to go for need rather than go with the best guy. I still have my doubts how Long even made it as far as he did, based off 5 career starts at a major college.

[jason]

He was a reach because he projected as the 6th or 7th best OL in the draft that you took in the first round when you had guys like Eiffert, Ogletree, and others that were left on the board as #1 or #2 at their positions. The Bears chose to go for need rather than go with the best guy. I still have my doubts how Long even made it as far as he did, based off 5 career starts at a major college.

 

That's only factoring in position, and not need. The Bears obviously weighed both.

 

Kyle Long may have been a slight reach (even though his father said other teams intimated his son wouldn't make it out of the first round), but he's no more of a reach than Tyler Eifert would have been a bad selection for the Bears.

[lemonej]

He was a reach because he projected as the 6th or 7th best OL in the draft that you took in the first round when you had guys like Eiffert, Ogletree, and others that were left on the board as #1 or #2 at their positions. The Bears chose to go for need rather than go with the best guy. I still have my doubts how Long even made it as far as he did, based off 5 career starts at a major college.

When you weigh that against the likes of Ansah and Lane Johnson who went in the top 5 and are being viewed clearly on their potential but a guy taken at 20 viewed on his upside is a bad value pick. You go out in FA and get 2 TEs why take a TE in the first. Look up the stats at the edge rushers taken in the top 10 not a lot of sacks or production from the 2 combined. Ogletree was the guy I wanted but a guy who gets a DUI during the scouting process deserves to be passed up. Again an OLinemen and LB in the first 2 picks and I'm good. For all the guys that rate these players there is a Arian Foster or 2 that slips through undrafted. If the question was Floyd vs Long I lose the argument or even Rhodes but Eifert or Ogletree I'll debate against those 2 all day.

[bowlingtwig]

I like listening to hub but only when he's talking football about any of the teams. He's a total moron when evaluating the bears. He crushed us for so long cuz of our qb situation then JA trades for cutler and he crushed that also. He's never happy about anything this team does

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I like listening to hub but only when he's talking football about any of the teams. He's a total moron when evaluating the bears. He crushed us for so long cuz of our qb situation then JA trades for cutler and he crushed that also. He's never happy about anything this team does

 

Wait a minute....where is Terra Tor right now?

[Connorbear]

The way he reacted when the Bears made the pick saying"Emery Blew The Pick" proves that he is still mad about getting the ax. I still think he is full of himself as well as all of the PFW staff and rarely pays tribute to the man who was instrumental in the success of that publication and that was Joel Buschbaum who was outstanding and Hub took over after he passed away. Like I posted there was 12 picks besides the 20th that you could find something negative to say. I take what a lot of these guys who write about football comments with a grain of salt but the fact that Hub is on the airwaves here quite a bit is what gets to me because that gives him plenty of opportunity to bash the team. NFL Network's Charlie Casserly who has made a draft pick or 2 wasn't critical of the pick and actually said that Longs work during Senior Bowl week showed how well he takes coaching. Tony Wise who coached an Olineman or 2 says that he should windup at LT. So if we have drafted the future LT at 20 how big of a reach is it.

 

They had a very nice tribute to Buschbaum in the draft guide the year he died. I really don't know how much they could do after that. Further, Hub has been the publisher of the magazine for years (at leas that is what I remember).

 

Peace

[Mongo3451]

The way he reacted when the Bears made the pick saying"Emery Blew The Pick" proves that he is still mad about getting the ax. I still think he is full of himself as well as all of the PFW staff and rarely pays tribute to the man who was instrumental in the success of that publication and that was Joel Buschbaum who was outstanding and Hub took over after he passed away. Like I posted there was 12 picks besides the 20th that you could find something negative to say. I take what a lot of these guys who write about football comments with a grain of salt but the fact that Hub is on the airwaves here quite a bit is what gets to me because that gives him plenty of opportunity to bash the team. NFL Network's Charlie Casserly who has made a draft pick or 2 wasn't critical of the pick and actually said that Longs work during Senior Bowl week showed how well he takes coaching. Tony Wise who coached an Olineman or 2 says that he should windup at LT. So if we have drafted the future LT at 20 how big of a reach is it.

Tony Wise said, forget OG and pencil him in at LT on day one...

[Connorbear]

Tony Wise said, forget OG and pencil him in at LT on day one...

I would disagree - that's why you signed Bushrod.

 

Peace

[AZ54]

I totally agree with the other risky picks in the top half of the draft. I was very happy when the Lions to Ansah. He could develop but a mere 4.5 sacks in college is not worrisome to me but hey Kiper loves it. Likewise I was happy when the Vikings took Patterson.... a developmental prospect at WR when they needed a good consistent player at the position now.

 

Outside our division....Lane Johnson skyrocketing all the way to top 5 was amazing as three months ago everyone figured he'd there for our pick. This was a draft with no high end blue chip players so teams went with athletic developmental guys early hoping to strike gold. Many will be wrong. Of those I'd say Lane Johnson is one of the safest risks.

[Mongo3451]

I would disagree - that's why you signed Bushrod.

 

Peace

I agree with your opinion. Just repeating what I read. I do agree with Wise in that Long is very talented.

[madlithuanian]

I could see it playing out with Bushrod at LT for a few years w/ Kyle taking over later...

 

I agree with your opinion. Just repeating what I read. I do agree with Wise in that Long is very talented.

 

[Stinger226]

I like listening to hub but only when he's talking football about any of the teams. He's a total moron when evaluating the bears. He crushed us for so long cuz of our qb situation then JA trades for cutler and he crushed that also. He's never happy about anything this team does

Hub is ok to listen to, dont agree with most of his opinions. He said it was a reach because there draft guide had him rated as the 38th best player and he got picked at 20. He has to protect his little Draft guide by sticking with the rating his guy does. We needed a OL and he wouldnt have made it out of the first round. We dont know how good he will be , but have to give Emery credit for going after the guy he wanted, no matter what anybody else had him rated.

[bradjock]

I could see it playing out with Bushrod at LT for a few years w/ Kyle taking over later...

 

It could also mean that we don't think Bushrod is that good. Granted, he's by far the best offensive lineman the Bears have. Signing a LT was a desperate need. Getting a pro gowl LT for 5 years 35 million seems to good to be true. Especially when Andy Levitre signed for 6 years, 46 million. Heck, back in 2004, John Tait as a RT signed for 5 years 34 million. (I concede that I'm not breaking down the numbers in any of these deals)

 

 

[lemonej]

They had a very nice tribute to Buschbaum in the draft guide the year he died. I really don't know how much they could do after that. Further, Hub has been the publisher of the magazine for years (at leas that is what I remember).

 

Peace

 

CB you know me by now and my tie to Buschbaum is personal. My family had a delivery business for17 years and one of the places we delivered to actually helped produce the PFW draft guide. The one copy I was able to secure helped me read about the likes of a Marcus Robinson a 7th rd prospect out of South Carolina St. JB was not as visible as Hub wants to be and paying tribute to a founder should be annual.We still salute Papa Bear.

[lemonej]

I totally agree with the other risky picks in the top half of the draft. I was very happy when the Lions to Ansah. He could develop but a mere 4.5 sacks in college is not worrisome to me but hey Kiper loves it. Likewise I was happy when the Vikings took Patterson.... a developmental prospect at WR when they needed a good consistent player at the position now.

 

Outside our division....Lane Johnson skyrocketing all the way to top 5 was amazing as three months ago everyone figured he'd there for our pick. This was a draft with no high end blue chip players so teams went with athletic developmental guys early hoping to strike gold. Many will be wrong. Of those I'd say Lane Johnson is one of the safest risks.

 

AZ54 you have always been one of my favorite posters,so I ask you with all those high risk reward players getting decent guaranteed money why is there so much angst about a reach at 20?

[lemonej]

It could also mean that we don't think Bushrod is that good. Granted, he's by far the best offensive lineman the Bears have. Signing a LT was a desperate need. Getting a pro gowl LT for 5 years 35 million seems to good to be true. Especially when Andy Levitre signed for 6 years, 46 million. Heck, back in 2004, John Tait as a RT signed for 5 years 34 million. (I concede that I'm not breaking down the numbers in any of these deals)

 

When you have the guy that coached him up thats a bargain. When looking at at what Levitre signed for I'll mention the names of Alan Faneca and Steve Hutchinson what did either of those guys do after they signed their big contracts? OGs tend to be more system successful than any other OLineman. The fact that Kromer and Bushrod have a history together makes me feel a little more comfortable about his signing than my normal skepticism.

[Connorbear]

CB you know me by now and my tie to Buschbaum is personal. My family had a delivery business for17 years and one of the places we delivered to actually helped produce the PFW draft guide. The one copy I was able to secure helped me read about the likes of a Marcus Robinson a 7th rd prospect out of South Carolina St. JB was not as visible as Hub wants to be and paying tribute to a founder should be annual.We still salute Papa Bear.

 

 

I didn't know you had a tie to him like that. Very cool. I can understand where you are coming from.

 

Peace

[AZ54]

AZ54 you have always been one of my favorite posters,so I ask you with all those high risk reward players getting decent guaranteed money why is there so much angst about a reach at 20?

 

It is simply because we are the Bears and we don't know Oline. If Belichik, or even New Orleans where they know (knew) how to grow Pro Bowl talent, had taken him this early it would be lauded as a team, one that knows what it is doing of course, targetting the player they wanted and going after him regardless.

 

Recall the Colts trading up to reach for Dwight Freeney..... much to our dismay. They were already a playoff team so they were a "smart team" grabbing the missing piece.

 

I don't worry about analysts because I believe exactly what someone wrote....they rank these guys and then try to find a home for them in the range they have them ranked. But it is their ranking not the teams' rankings.

 

Long was no more reach than half the other taken except the others were ranked their by the pundits. Or the pundits moved them up to that ranking based on the rumors they heard around the league about where they'd go (best example Lane Johnson). Which means they don't stick to their own evaluations either.

 

I like this board in part because I like the evaluations from the fans. We're not all experts but we know football. Now it's time to setup our poll and decide who the board would have chosen in the draft. I need someone who knows how to setup a poll to assist. Right now I need to get some sleep.

[bradjock]

When you have the guy that coached him up thats a bargain. When looking at at what Levitre signed for I'll mention the names of Alan Faneca and Steve Hutchinson what did either of those guys do after they signed their big contracts? OGs tend to be more system successful than any other OLineman. The fact that Kromer and Bushrod have a history together makes me feel a little more comfortable about his signing than my normal skepticism.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Faneca and Hutchinson both continued to be top shelf pro bowl guards after they were signed. You didn't hear much about them because they were guards.

 

The impression I get from Bushrod is that he's a starting caliber NFL LT. He's solid but far from great. He's immediately the best o-lineman the Bears have, but that ain't saying much. We had to over-pay for him because of our need.

 

I'm not complaining about the signing, I'm just saying we acknowledge that we can do much better at LT. We are hoping Long is that guy.