A Step Back on Defense

[balta1701-A]

BTW - Didn't blitzing Brady help the NYG win a SB or 2? Saints did it to Manning as well. It doesn't always work, and we all know that it's a "team" thing on all sides of the ball...but I simply think a "great" D is one that canpressure great QB's. Looks what LT and the Giants did to Joe Montana?

You can tell me I'm in correct, but I think the answer is "no". I think the Giants battered the Patriots with their front 4, that was key both times, the Patriots O-line couldn't slow down the Giants D-Line and that allowed them to get pressure without blitzing. I don't have stats for that one game, but neither the Giants nor Patriots were heavy-blitzing teams that year.

[BearFan PHX]

I'm not confusing it, I just disagree with your usage of aggressive. I view the 1-gap to be more passive and reactionary, saying to the opposing offense, "Here's what we have, beat it." Whereas the 2-gap dictates to the opponent's offense - through a moderate amount of unpredictability - what they are allowed to run. Lovie was all about "Here's what we have, beat it."

 

Whatever, you're simply making a stupid semantic argument about the word aggressive.

 

When I say aggressive in this case, I simply mean whether the defensive lineman get upfield on first down, or whether they hold their positions to play 2 gaps until the play is identified as a pass. I'm not talking about the roster, blitzing, coverage, the rhythm of the playcalling, the faces people make or whether they bark. If you cant understand the difference between a 1 gap front and a 2 gap front then you don't know much about football.

 

My point remains: a 1 gap front requires gap discipline that a 2 gap front doesn't, and until that's solid, expect to see some plays go against us. I reiterate, I am thrilled with the roster changes, and expect the defense to play very well once they get their assignments. Until then, expect to see the same thing we saw when Urlacher and Brown had their first year in the system.

[madlithuanian]

Actually, I think you are correct, but they did have relentless pressure on Brady as you say. Although I can't imagine the LB's did nothing with pressure. My memory fails me on that though.

 

I'm not even sure we're saying bitzing constantly = aggressive. It's part, but I think other elements play a factor in how aggressive a D is...for instance, how far back your corners are lining.

 

 

 

You can tell me I'm in correct, but I think the answer is "no". I think the Giants battered the Patriots with their front 4, that was key both times, the Patriots O-line couldn't slow down the Giants D-Line and that allowed them to get pressure without blitzing. I don't have stats for that one game, but neither the Giants nor Patriots were heavy-blitzing teams that year.

 

[CrackerDog]

I'm not even sure we're saying bitzing constantly = aggressive.

 

I couldn't agree with you more there. Constant blitzing is just as ineffective as doing it too little. Modern offenses need to be kept off balance.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed!

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more there. Constant blitzing is just as ineffective as doing it too little. Modern offenses need to be kept off balance.

 

[jason]

Whatever, you're simply making a stupid semantic argument about the word aggressive.

 

When I say aggressive in this case, I simply mean whether the defensive lineman get upfield on first down, or whether they hold their positions to play 2 gaps until the play is identified as a pass. I'm not talking about the roster, blitzing, coverage, the rhythm of the playcalling, the faces people make or whether they bark. If you cant understand the difference between a 1 gap front and a 2 gap front then you don't know much about football.

 

My point remains: a 1 gap front requires gap discipline that a 2 gap front doesn't, and until that's solid, expect to see some plays go against us. I reiterate, I am thrilled with the roster changes, and expect the defense to play very well once they get their assignments. Until then, expect to see the same thing we saw when Urlacher and Brown had their first year in the system.

 

I'm sorry if you can't comprehend multi-dimensional discussion that derails ever-so-slightly from the differences between 1 and 2 gap defenses, but there is a definite difference in aggressiveness that stretches beyond semantics. It's possible to be a 1-gap defense that concentrates more on gap responsibility than pressure (i.e. Lovie's M.O.). Sure, it works well in Lovie's grand scheme of things because it supports the concept of "make the other team eventually make a mistake," but it's not really the type of defense that attacks as much as it could. It's entirely the reason why we so often saw our DEs rush blindly on the outside, OT positioning be damned; the "gap" was more important than the pressure. The 2-gap, while more prone to gaping holes if players aren't on the same wavelength (the discipline part is where you are right in this discussion), is also a defense that provides better opportunities to confuse and dictate to an opposing offense.

[BearFan PHX]

I'm sorry if you can't comprehend multi-dimensional discussion that derails ever-so-slightly from the differences between 1 and 2 gap defenses, but there is a definite difference in aggressiveness that stretches beyond semantics. It's possible to be a 1-gap defense that concentrates more on gap responsibility than pressure (i.e. Lovie's M.O.). Sure, it works well in Lovie's grand scheme of things because it supports the concept of "make the other team eventually make a mistake," but it's not really the type of defense that attacks as much as it could. It's entirely the reason why we so often saw our DEs rush blindly on the outside, OT positioning be damned; the "gap" was more important than the pressure. The 2-gap, while more prone to gaping holes if players aren't on the same wavelength (the discipline part is where you are right in this discussion), is also a defense that provides better opportunities to confuse and dictate to an opposing offense.

 

LOL Jason, arrogant as ever.

 

No one preaches getting into a gap and stopping. Getting into the gap means getting pressure. It means NOT stopping to read run.

 

The 2 gap, on the other hand, allows linebackers to read and flow, so in fact, no, a 2 gap front is less likely to suffer from assignment errors against the run. In other words "get the ball carrier" is easier to remember than which gap is yours on a given play.

 

As for not comprehending the discussion, it is you that called out MY use of the word, and since I both started the thread, AND know precisely what *I* meant when I used it, you therefore must be incorrect.

 

The idea of Lovie playing for an opponent's mistake, rather than to take chances is more about the coverage we play behind the fronts. You're correct in identifying the cover 2 that way. But you're still missing the main point here. And frankly, I think I've made it clearly enough that anyone else reading it can understand the point, and so we can all watch for those missed assignnments in preseason, and early games.

 

As for you Jason, there are many decaffinated brands that taste almost as good as the real thing.

 

[CrackerDog]

LOL Jason, arrogant as ever.

 

As for you Jason, there are many decaffinated brands that taste almost as good as the real thing.

 

LOL!

[jason]

LOL Jason, arrogant as ever.

 

No one preaches getting into a gap and stopping. Getting into the gap means getting pressure. It means NOT stopping to read run.

 

The 2 gap, on the other hand, allows linebackers to read and flow, so in fact, no, a 2 gap front is less likely to suffer from assignment errors against the run. In other words "get the ball carrier" is easier to remember than which gap is yours on a given play.

 

As for not comprehending the discussion, it is you that called out MY use of the word, and since I both started the thread, AND know precisely what *I* meant when I used it, you therefore must be incorrect.

 

The idea of Lovie playing for an opponent's mistake, rather than to take chances is more about the coverage we play behind the fronts. You're correct in identifying the cover 2 that way. But you're still missing the main point here. And frankly, I think I've made it clearly enough that anyone else reading it can understand the point, and so we can all watch for those missed assignnments in preseason, and early games.

 

As for you Jason, there are many decaffinated brands that taste almost as good as the real thing.

 

You'd be surprised to know that I loathe coffee, and I wake up ready to piss vinegar. To quote Stripes, "Aaaaaaaarmy training, sir!"

 

As for football, let's go at this a different way, since it's apparently not clear to you that the gap-style of defense up front directly relates to the scheme of the LBs and the secondary.

 

1. Do you think there can be varying levels of aggressiveness when it comes to defensive strategies and alignments?

If yes...

2. Do you think Lovie coached a brand of 1-gap that was less aggressive because the players were coached to prioritize the gap over the pursuit?