My argument as told by Phil Emery.

[scs787]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break...0,4746067.story

“Really, for J’Marcus, he had played, I will say that 14 out of the 16 games last year he was sufficient or better,” Emery said. “He had a lot of good games in that we grade sufficient, good, very good. Fourteen out of those 16, they were at least at the sufficient level, which you can win with that player and his performance on that particular day. Two of them were below that line. The obvious games were the first Green Bay game and the San Francisco game.”

 

Isn't that exactly what I was trying to say all off season? Things then escalated after all the childish remarks came in. I shared the same thoughts our GM did and got shit for it, that is what was incredibly frustrating to me. My opinion wasn't wrong. My opinion wasn't that he'll be an all pro lineman. My opinion was exactly what Emery said, “Coming into this fall, we were very optimistic that he was going to be our starting right tackle and would continue to improve as a player”. I was called a "broken record" numerous times, well of course, no football was played for my opinion to change. How can I come up with a new argument when no new argument was presented? I had the only arguments i needed when it came to the subject at hand.

 

I apologize for "challenging the integrity of the board" but I guess I just expected more from the board then some of the childish comments I've seen.

 

Rant over...not sure if my time here is over or not.

['TD']

It's up to you what you do, but I like around here. It's kind of crazy that your obsession with the Webb debate has brought you to this point. Phil isn't going to say anything negative about any former Bear. That's just not the politically correct thing to do as a GM.

 

I'm not saying "Your obsession" in a inflammatory term. It's obviously there in the so called "broken record" posts, and continues to be after he was cut and signed with another team for a couple days.

 

Just let it go. No one cares about Webb. He's gone and moved on and enjoy. I promise this is a much larger issue, including questioning integrity, to yourself than it is to anyone else that posts or reads posts here. Time to move past, be excited for Sunday and the new topics at hand.

[Stinger226]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break...0,4746067.story

 

 

Isn't that exactly what I was trying to say all off season? Things then escalated after all the childish remarks came in. I shared the same thoughts our GM did and got shit for it, that is what was incredibly frustrating to me. My opinion wasn't wrong. My opinion wasn't that he'll be an all pro lineman. My opinion was exactly what Emery said, “Coming into this fall, we were very optimistic that he was going to be our starting right tackle and would continue to improve as a player”. I was called a "broken record" numerous times, well of course, no football was played for my opinion to change. How can I come up with a new argument when no new argument was presented? I had the only arguments i needed when it came to the subject at hand.

 

I apologize for "challenging the integrity of the board" but I guess I just expected more from the board then some of the childish comments I've seen.

 

Rant over...not sure if my time here is over or not.

The facts are he isnt a very good player. Apparently the GM changed his mind, he cut him. All along it was more than he improved, you keep bringing up PFF comparing how he was just as good as Bushrod, facts are you were wrong about Webb and cant seem to come to terms with admitting it. I have to busy of a life but hope someone on here goes back and puts up you opinions , it was much more than (he improved) you were waving a flag for him. Now go sit in the corner and suck your thumb.

[scs787]

It's up to you what you do, but I like around here. It's kind of crazy that your obsession with the Webb debate has brought you to this point. Phil isn't going to say anything negative about any former Bear. That's just not the politically correct thing to do as a GM.

 

I'm not saying "Your obsession" in a inflammatory term. It's obviously there in the so called "broken record" posts, and continues to be after he was cut and signed with another team for a couple days.

 

Just let it go. No one cares about Webb. He's gone and moved on and enjoy. I promise this is a much larger issue, including questioning integrity, to yourself than it is to anyone else that posts or reads posts here. Time to move past, be excited for Sunday and the new topics at hand.

 

So he just lied about his grading of him? I understand not saying anything negative but what would be the reasoning behind him bring up a "made up" thought?

 

You're right, he's gone and it's time to move on, yet how many posts came up afterwards? Those guys wanted their last hurrah on the subject so here is mine.

 

I have no "obsession" what so ever, just a different opinion that was shared with our GM, and when my intelligence gets questioned or childish remarks suffice I won't stand idly by. If you look back, I don't bring the guy up, but when others do I jump in. Not sure how that can be viewed as an obsession. When someone question Martellus I jump in with my opinion there as well, am I obsessed with him as well? No. This is a message board, we all offer our opinions, but because my views were deemed wrong on such a hot topic things get a little extreme and now obsessive.

 

Everything just got out of hand.

[scs787]

The facts are he isnt a very good player. Apparently the GM changed his mind, he cut him. All along it was more than he improved, you keep bringing up PFF comparing how he was just as good as Bushrod, facts are you were wrong about Webb and cant seem to come to terms with admitting it. I have to busy of a life but hope someone on here goes back and puts up you opinions , it was much more than (he improved) you were waving a flag for him. Now go sit in the corner and suck your thumb.

 

When comparing apples to apples (PFF grade to PFF grade) like Moon Mullin said yes, he did grade as just as good a player as Bushrod. Like most Bear fans I don't watch a lot of Saints game so all I had was the apples to apples stats to go off. Since it was brought up that I used PFF as "the bible" and "the hand of god" I even evaluated tape and yes my opinion stuck.

 

My argument was never more than saying he improved so yes I would love to see some posts where I said he was more than average with the potential to be more than average.

 

"Bears general manager Phil Emery was optimistic J’Marcus Webb would excel when shifted to right tackle this season and that is why he essentially was given that job."....As was I and I never said anything more than that.

 

And I've already said I support Mills. Essentially, through it all I was in the same camp as Phil and he even went a step further to say that he was adequate in 14 of 16. Things just escalated, my words got skewed, and childish comments ensued.

 

I'm not bringing all this up to bash you guys, I'm bringing up in hopes that you folks can better understand my argument.

[Connorbear]

I'm glad I never got in this conversation.

 

I'm also glad Webb is gone.

 

Peace

[jason]

Facts:

-Webb was not good while with the Bears, nor was he average, nor was he comparable to Bushrod.

-Webb got cut for sucking worse than a rookie and a guy who is barely memorable.

-PFF and number of sacks are poor representations of how shitty Webb was comprehensively. (For example, I gave up zero sacks last year. Statistically, I gave up less sacks than anyone last year, including Bushrod and Webb. That alone is a ridiculous representation of why singular facts like sacks don't consider other factors, and mean next to nothing in a complex discussion like OL efficacy.)

-Bears management will not bag on Webb now that he's gone.

 

No matter what "stats" are brought into the debate, no matter what angle of discussion, no matter how many self-made Jamarcus Webb Fathead decorations are on your walls, the first three facts led to fact four. 999 out of 1000 disagree with a pro-Webb position (maybe more). The original point wasn't mistaken or confused; it was just wrong. If in doubt, see facts 1-4.

[scs787]

I'm just gonna leave it at my thoughts on the subject are summed up in the article I posted, and they came from our GM. I was wrong about him as was our GM. I understand Phil isn't gonna say anything bad about the guy, that's bad for business, but the extents of his comments ring true to exactly what I was trying to say.

[BearFan PHX]

Oh my god. Please let it GO.

 

Emery said SUFFICIENT. Then in the next sentence he says they have various levels of grades, "sufficient" is one of them "good" is another and "very good" yet another. I don't see how "sufficient" is "good" in Emery's words, when he directly says it is different and distinct from "good" no less "very good"?

 

If you're saying that Emery agrees that the GB and SF games were Webb's worst, then yes, he agrees with you. But no matter what website says Bushrod and Webb are equivalent, it just isn't so. It isn't. And Emery specifically did NOT back up your argument in that quote.

 

Now enough. Part of being a man is admitting when you're wrong, or at least knowing when it's time to fold your cards.

 

You're welcome here, but the argument that Webb and Bushrod are equals isn't.

[scs787]

Oh my god. Please let it GO.

 

Emery said SUFFICIENT. Then in the next sentence he says they have various levels of grades, "sufficient" is one of them "good" is another and "very good" yet another. I don't see how "sufficient" is "good" in Emery's words, when he directly says it is different and distinct from "good" no less "very good"?

 

If you're saying that Emery agrees that the GB and SF games were Webb's worst, then yes, he agrees with you. But no matter what website says Bushrod and Webb are equivalent, it just isn't so. It isn't. And Emery specifically did NOT back up your argument in that quote.

 

Now enough. Part of being a man is admitting when you're wrong, or at least knowing when it's time to fold your cards.

 

You're welcome here, but the argument that Webb and Bushrod are equals isn't.

 

I already said I was wrong in the last post, as was our GM. Phil said sufficient or better in 14 of the 16 games, not just sufficient in all those games. If you go back i never even called Webb good, I said he was slightly below average with the potential to be above average.

 

 

[AZ54]

Facts:

-Webb was not good while with the Bears, nor was he average, nor was he comparable to Bushrod.

-Webb got cut for sucking worse than a rookie and a guy who is barely memorable.

-PFF and number of sacks are poor representations of how shitty Webb was comprehensively. (For example, I gave up zero sacks last year. Statistically, I gave up less sacks than anyone last year, including Bushrod and Webb. That alone is a ridiculous representation of why singular facts like sacks don't consider other factors, and mean next to nothing in a complex discussion like OL efficacy.)

-Bears management will not bag on Webb now that he's gone.

 

No matter what "stats" are brought into the debate, no matter what angle of discussion, no matter how many self-made Jamarcus Webb Fathead decorations are on your walls, the first three facts led to fact four. 999 out of 1000 disagree with a pro-Webb position (maybe more). The original point wasn't mistaken or confused; it was just wrong. If in doubt, see facts 1-4.

 

 

Welcome back! I do think you'll have to go with 998 out of 1000 since the Vikings just hired him.

[bowlingtwig]

I already said I was wrong in the last post, as was our GM. Phil said sufficient or better in 14 of the 16 games, not just sufficient in all those games. If you go back i never even called Webb good, I said he was slightly below average with the potential to be above average.

You keep saying your ending this yet you keep bringing it up. Screw what my opinion is or your opinion. Just f'n drop it already. This is no longer news worthy as he his no longer employed by our beloved. I'm begging you 1 final time for the sake of everyone drop it otherwise I can about guarantee your gonna get hated banter flung your way from someone who disagrees with your position on this and then the only person u can blame is yourself for bringing it up again. I'm really hoping this ends this before 1 of us admins needs to step in and locks this thread. I can't remember last time that's even been done. I'm here trying to ensure this doesn't get personal. Now please drop this.

[Mongo3451]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break...0,4746067.story

 

 

Isn't that exactly what I was trying to say all off season? Things then escalated after all the childish remarks came in. I shared the same thoughts our GM did and got shit for it, that is what was incredibly frustrating to me. My opinion wasn't wrong. My opinion wasn't that he'll be an all pro lineman. My opinion was exactly what Emery said, "Coming into this fall, we were very optimistic that he was going to be our starting right tackle and would continue to improve as a player". I was called a "broken record" numerous times, well of course, no football was played for my opinion to change. How can I come up with a new argument when no new argument was presented? I had the only arguments i needed when it came to the subject at hand.

 

I apologize for "challenging the integrity of the board" but I guess I just expected more from the board then some of the childish comments I've seen.

 

Rant over...not sure if my time here is over or not.

Your argument was valid for last year. However, last year is long gone and so is Webb. The staff quickly found out he was too dumb or unmotivated this year to pick up the new system and do an adequate job. So, Emery's statement on his assessment is also moot, due to it being in the past.

 

Welcome back Jason!

[Stinger226]

Facts:

-Webb was not good while with the Bears, nor was he average, nor was he comparable to Bushrod.

-Webb got cut for sucking worse than a rookie and a guy who is barely memorable.

-PFF and number of sacks are poor representations of how shitty Webb was comprehensively. (For example, I gave up zero sacks last year. Statistically, I gave up less sacks than anyone last year, including Bushrod and Webb. That alone is a ridiculous representation of why singular facts like sacks don't consider other factors, and mean next to nothing in a complex discussion like OL efficacy.)

-Bears management will not bag on Webb now that he's gone.

 

No matter what "stats" are brought into the debate, no matter what angle of discussion, no matter how many self-made Jamarcus Webb Fathead decorations are on your walls, the first three facts led to fact four. 999 out of 1000 disagree with a pro-Webb position (maybe more). The original point wasn't mistaken or confused; it was just wrong. If in doubt, see facts 1-4.

Finally you come back and make a post with intellectual reverence, maybe if you have been around more this Webb debate would have been put to bed long ago, you have clarity.

[Stinger226]

I already said I was wrong in the last post, as was our GM. Phil said sufficient or better in 14 of the 16 games, not just sufficient in all those games. If you go back i never even called Webb good, I said he was slightly below average with the potential to be above average.

Emery was just talking politically correct, when releasing a player, he wasnt throwing support his way,its just like you to turn a non sensible comment and try to make it mean something. Next day I have off, I will gladly go back and find your comments that very much was rah rah for Webb, not just saying (he improved). You and I debated this point many times and you trying to back pedal now.

[scs787]

You keep saying your ending this yet you keep bringing it up. Screw what my opinion is or your opinion. Just f'n drop it already. This is no longer news worthy as he his no longer employed by our beloved. I'm begging you 1 final time for the sake of everyone drop it otherwise I can about guarantee your gonna get hated banter flung your way from someone who disagrees with your position on this and then the only person u can blame is yourself for bringing it up again. I'm really hoping this ends this before 1 of us admins needs to step in and locks this thread. I can't remember last time that's even been done. I'm here trying to ensure this doesn't get personal. Now please drop this.

 

I struggle to see how the "Webb progresses to the unemployment line" and the "Best progression I've ever seen" threads are "news worthy" threads while this one isn't. This is all coming from an article that was made yesterday by the Trib. This is not me reaching and posting an old article. This is me reading an article from the Trib and being reminded of the same exact thought process that I got ripped for. Only this time it was made by the GM of our beloved Bears. I dont care how much hated banter gets flung my way because this solidifies that my thoughts weren't idiotic and didn't garner the kind of idiotic responses I got for having these views

 

Here's the tweet that sparked me to read the article

 

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 16h

 

#Bears GM Phil Emery had high hopes for J'Marcus Webb this season. The decision to cut him in Emery's words: http://trib.in/136Oh55

 

If it was no longer news worthy why did Biggs even bring it up?

 

Your argument was valid for last year. However, last year is long gone and so is Webb. The staff quickly found out he was too dumb or unmotivated this year to pick up the new system and do an adequate job. So, Emery's statement on his assessment is also moot, due to it being in the past.

 

Welcome back Jason!

 

Yes, I've already said Webb isn't the sharpest crayon in crayon box and all his progressions very well could have been thrown out the window. My argument was all based on his last 3 years, so yes as you say my argument was valid. I've since moved on to saying I support Mills.

 

Emery was just talking politically correct, when releasing a player, he wasnt throwing support his way,its just like you to turn a non sensible comment and try to make it mean something. Next day I have off, I will gladly go back and find your comments that very much was rah rah for Webb, not just saying (he improved). You and I debated this point many times and you trying to back pedal now.

 

Once again, I understand he's not gonna say anything bad about him, but what point is there to bring up a "fake" grading scale and saying that he graded sufficient or better in all but 2 games on this imaginary grading scale? Or even admitting he was optimistic J’Marcus Webb would excel when shifted to right tackle this season and that is why he essentially was given that job? You can be politically correct without lying. He really didn't have to say anything.

 

Be my guest in looking things up, I know what my argument was and it's exactly what Phil said in the article posted yesterday. I was optimistic he would continue to improve as he did his first 3 years.

 

I remember specifically a thread where AZ was the only one who understood my point of Webb was slightly below average with the potential to be better than average, you people were just putting words in my mouth.

[CrackerDog]

Be my guest in looking things up,

 

Dude, get the F*CK OVER YOURSELF!!!

 

I never thought I'd be so glad to see Jason back on the board but you've driven me to that place. How goddamn childish do you have to prove yourself? Do us all a favor, chill out with a joint or two, mellow for a week and then come back and we'll all pretend this shit never happened. JESUS H CHRIST!!!

[scs787]

Dude, get the F*CK OVER YOURSELF!!!

 

I never thought I'd be so glad to see Jason back on the board but you've driven me to that place. How goddamn childish do you have to prove yourself? Do us all a favor, chill out with a joint or two, mellow for a week and then come back and we'll all pretend this shit never happened. JESUS H CHRIST!!!

 

 

When you take as much shit as I have it's just reassuring that an intelligent person like Phil Emery shared my same thoughts. Why would i just let this article slide while you guys have all the fun?

 

I guess I just don't understand how this thread can be viewed as childish while threads like "Webb progresses to the unemployment line" are not.

[ChileBear]

I'm glad I never got in this conversation.

 

I'm also glad Webb is gone.

 

Peace

Best post in this thread Connor.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

When you take as much shit as I have it's just reassuring that an intelligent person like Phil Emery shared my same thoughts. Why would i just let this article slide while you guys have all the fun?

 

I guess I just don't understand how this thread can be viewed as childish while threads like "Webb progresses to the unemployment line" are not.

 

Dude, now you're just trolling. All others would be wise to just disengage from this thread. It's apprent that it's turned into fishing expedition.

[Chitownhustla]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break...0,4746067.story

 

 

Isn't that exactly what I was trying to say all off season? Things then escalated after all the childish remarks came in. I shared the same thoughts our GM did and got shit for it, that is what was incredibly frustrating to me. My opinion wasn't wrong. My opinion wasn't that he'll be an all pro lineman. My opinion was exactly what Emery said, “Coming into this fall, we were very optimistic that he was going to be our starting right tackle and would continue to improve as a player”. I was called a "broken record" numerous times, well of course, no football was played for my opinion to change. How can I come up with a new argument when no new argument was presented? I had the only arguments i needed when it came to the subject at hand.

 

I apologize for "challenging the integrity of the board" but I guess I just expected more from the board then some of the childish comments I've seen.

 

Rant over...not sure if my time here is over or not.

 

How old are you? Do you remember this famous line "I did not have sexual relations with that girl, Ms. Lewinski"

 

Did you believe him when he said that??? Do you believe everything you read on the world wide web?

 

 

Do you really believe Emery would cut a Tackle that graded out well in 14 out of 16 games? There is no reason Emery, as smart as he is would cut Webb if he played so well. You have seen how hard it is to get a good oline together. Also if a player graded out well would they ask him to take a pay cut? So to recap, moved from starting LT to RT, some would say a small demotion. Then asked to take a pay cut, that pretty much was a slap to the face saying get your shit together. Then moved to 2nd string behind a rookie, another demotion. Now finally he is cut. The progression is pretty clear, you just dont want to admit it.

 

 

Now if you said I didnt have sexual relations with Mr Webb, i may not believe you!! lol.....sorry i had to just because Im an internet tough guy!! hahahaha

[scs787]

Dude, now you're just trolling. All others would be wise to just disengage from this thread. It's apprent that it's turned into fishing expedition.

 

How is this trolling? This was all in response to an article that was posted yesterday. Was the Biggs article trolling?

 

How is this trolling and previous posts aren't? lol you's guys are quite amusing.

 

 

How old are you? Do you remember this famous line "I did not have sexual relations with that girl, Ms. Lewinski"

 

Did you believe him when he said that??? Do you believe everything you read on the world wide web?

 

 

Do you really believe Emery would cut a Tackle that graded out well in 14 out of 16 games? There is no reason Emery, as smart as he is would cut Webb if he played so well. You have seen how hard it is to get a good oline together. Also if a player graded out well would they ask him to take a pay cut? So to recap, moved from starting LT to RT, some would say a small demotion. Then asked to take a pay cut, that pretty much was a slap to the face saying get your shit together. Then moved to 2nd string behind a rookie, another demotion. Now finally he is cut. The progression is pretty clear, you just dont want to admit it.

 

 

Now if you said I didnt have sexual relations with Mr Webb, i may not believe you!! lol.....sorry i had to just because Im an internet tough guy!! hahahaha

 

I'm 26 so while I do remember said comment I was really to young at the time to care.

 

I just struggle to see why he'd make up a phony "statistic" and grading scale like that. I understand him giving him the token "I wish the best of luck in future endeavors" or something along those lines but not making up shit like that up.

 

I've already said I was wrong a few times in this thread but this article says Phil was wrong too. We were both "optimistic" that he'd continue to progress. That continued progression would have meant he was an average to an above average tackle.

 

 

[Chitownhustla]

How is this trolling? This was all in response to an article that was posted yesterday. Was the Biggs article trolling?

 

How is this trolling and previous posts aren't? lol you's guys are quite amusing.

 

 

 

 

I'm 26 so while I do remember said comment I was really to young at the time to care.

 

I just struggle to see why he'd make up a phony "statistic" and grading scale like that. I understand him giving him the token "I wish the best of luck in future endeavors" or something along those lines but not making up shit like that up.

 

I've already said I was wrong a few times in this thread but this article says Phil was wrong too. We were both "optimistic" that he'd continue to progress. That continued progression would have meant he was an average to an above average tackle.

 

Its call Coach speak, it explains why he was given the starting RT position. Many people would have liked to see Webb cut a long time ago. But they didn't, they gave him every chance to make this team. Really you have to read between the lines, it looks bad that a known crappy player was given the starting RT spot. Giving him the starting spot means you think he is good and really trusting your entire team with Webb. Now you cut this person, by saying what he did it puts all the blame on Webb and none one him. I had high hopes, yeah Emery was hoping Webb would turn it around so he wouldnt look bad by going into camp with him starting at RT.

 

Emery also said this:

“He never gained the consistency, that sufficient level of consistency that we want out of our players, so at the end his performance wasn’t to our expectation level that we felt we needed to move forward with it.”

 

How does a player that does not play with consistency grade out well???? Consistent players grade out at about a C, good players get a B and great players grade out at an A (this grading scale was from my college playing days at CMU). Guess what players that were not consistent got graded out as??? They didnt get grades because they didnt play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

Do you really believe Emery would cut a Tackle that graded out well in 14 out of 16 games? There is no reason Emery, as smart as he is would cut Webb if he played so well. You have seen how hard it is to get a good oline together. Also if a player graded out well would they ask him to take a pay cut? So to recap, moved from starting LT to RT, some would say a small demotion. Then asked to take a pay cut, that pretty much was a slap to the face saying get your shit together. Then moved to 2nd string behind a rookie, another demotion. Now finally he is cut. The progression is pretty clear, you just dont want to admit it.

I believe it and so did Emery. You want to give SCS a hard time, but his thinking WAS in line with what Emery was portraying to the press.

 

Remember, we are talking about last years grades from PFF. We also know what we saw on the field and grades confirmed it. Webb was progressing, yet slightly below average in last years offense. But, that was last year. We all know this year is a completely different scheme. New technique and terminology, which Webb, being less than smart and motivated, could not grasp. So, I'm gonna say you are dead ass wrong about last year, but if all your reasoning applies to this year, you are spot on.(but that's not how I read it)

[Chitownhustla]

I believe it and so did Emery. You want to give SCS a hard time, but his thinking WAS in line with what Emery was portraying to the press.

 

Remember, we are talking about last years grades from PFF. We also know what we saw on the field and grades confirmed it. Webb was progressing, yet slightly below average in last years offense. But, that was last year. We all know this year is a completely different scheme. New technique and terminology, which Webb, being less than smart and motivated, could not grasp. So, I'm gonna say you are dead ass wrong about last year, but if all your reasoning applies to this year, you are spot on.(but that's not how I read it)

 

 

I do not agree that Webb progressed last year. He was the same worthless Tackle as the last two years. You can spit out any stat you want, all you have to do is watch the tape.

 

 

As for the PFF stats from last year my last post was about the grades that Emery said Webb earned from their staff not any PFF stat.