Chip Kelly's Offense

[Bears4Ever_34]

20+ plays already and it's not even halfway through the first quarter. I am fascinated by this at the NFL level.

[CrackerDog]

Crazy. But frankly these two teams aren't any more ready for the season than the Bears were. This is being blamed on the CBA but let's be honest, teams COULD play their starters more than a few downs in the preseason. That might be what needs to happen.

[Bears4Ever_34]

The Eagles are putting on a clinic. This is scary good.

[CrackerDog]

The Eagles are putting on a clinic. This is scary good.

 

Yep. I was wrong about them not being ready for the season.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

That clinic netted them 7 points in the 2nd half. The first half was very impressive but like everything else, the NFL will figure this out.

[Bears4Ever_34]

That clinic netted them 7 points in the 2nd half. The first half was very impressive but like everything else, the NFL will figure this out.

They slowed the tempo down and played not to lose in the 4th quarter. As far as figuring the Eagles out, unless you can tell them to stop running the no-huddle I don't see what there really is to figure out that teams don't already know. The read option was supposed to be figured out, but I'm still waiting for that to happen. Only way to combat against the tempo is to sustain long drives yourself on offense, which is the same thing teams try to do against the Saints. A lot easier said than done.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

They slowed the tempo down and played not to lose in the 4th quarter. As far as figuring the Eagles out, unless you can tell them to stop running the no-huddle I don't see what there really is to figure out that teams don't already know. The read option was supposed to be figured out, but I'm still waiting for that to happen. Only way to combat against the tempo is to sustain long drives yourself on offense, which is the same thing teams try to do against the Saints. A lot easier said than done.

How did that read option work for Seattle yesterday and Washington today?

 

The 49ers run it and they put on a show, but it wasn't read option. It was all dropbacks and on Kaepernick's arm.

[Bears4Ever_34]

How did that read option work for Seattle yesterday and Washington today?

 

The 49ers run it and they put on a show, but it wasn't read option. It was all dropbacks and on Kaepernick's arm.

So you're going to use the first game RGIII comes back from ACL surgery as evidence for how the league has figured out how to stop the read option, and then ignore what just happened with Philadelphia?

 

The 49'ers ran a bunch of read option stuff yesterday. Kaepernick just didn't take it and run with it much at all. He threw it or handed it off instead. That's why it's called an option. It's the threat of not knowing where the ball is going that's killing defenses. I don't know why people think it's all of a sudden suppose to just go away. Now if they all threw the ball like Tim Tebow.. Then I could see it.

[AZ54]

They slowed the tempo down and played not to lose in the 4th quarter. As far as figuring the Eagles out, unless you can tell them to stop running the no-huddle I don't see what there really is to figure out that teams don't already know. The read option was supposed to be figured out, but I'm still waiting for that to happen. Only way to combat against the tempo is to sustain long drives yourself on offense, which is the same thing teams try to do against the Saints. A lot easier said than done.

 

 

Having watched Kelly's offense at Oregon a lot I will say this: Gary Crowton's offense looked unbeatable in his first start.

 

Oregon always struggled when they hit the big name competition. The media would have us believe nobody could stop Kelly's offense and that's not true. Whenever they had the athletic advantage (which was often in the Pac 10) Oregon would dominate. In college it is easier to isolate your faster players (when you have a lot of them) against slower players but talent in the NFL is far better balanced. I believe after 4 games his plays will be figured out and the going won't be so easy.

 

The presumption the only way to beat this offense is to have your offense make long drives is partially correct but keep in mind the point is to win a game not necessarily "stop" his offense. Forcing Chip's offense to go 3-and-out in 30 seconds (or 6 and out in 60 sec) really hurts his defense and gets you more plays as well. I don't think the Eagles defense is that good to begin with but tonight they succeeded by relying heavily on blitzes that left huge holes open behind them. RGIII and the Redskins were not prepared for this, however, teams will figure this out very quickly and I think we will see a lot of big plays given up.

 

As far as the Eagles offense and all read-options...just go hit the QB. These plays have always been around in college there's a reason they weren't used much in the NFL. And I don't buy the story that we haven't had talented running and passing QBs (Steve Young for one) in the past. In the NFL your QB determines your success more than any other player and it's a brutal 16 game season so protecting the QB from hits is of paramount importance. Unlike recruiting for college where elite programs find it easier to keep talent in the pipeline, finding your next NFL QB is a crapshoot. QBs who are predominately runners (average accuracy or below as passers) can take you far in college but who has done that in the NFL? National Championship rosters are littered with the names of these players. I could be wrong but Jim Harbaugh didn't sound as if he likes his QB taking hits on run fakes.

 

I'll stand alone, or in the minority, that this offense won't be looking so elite by mid-year.

 

['TD']

It really seems like a double edged sword to me. When it works, it could wear out a D. It seems like it would wear out their D when it doesn't tho.

[jason]

That clinic netted them 7 points in the 2nd half. The first half was very impressive but like everything else, the NFL will figure this out.

 

If by figure it out you mean, hit Michael Vick every freaking play until he either doesn't want to run or gets injured, then I completely agree. That's what the NFL defenses will do. And it will drastically alter the Eagles' offense, because, let's be honest, the running prowess of Nick Foles and/or Matt Barkley scares nobody.

[jason]

Having watched Kelly's offense at Oregon a lot I will say this: Gary Crowton's offense looked unbeatable in his first start.

 

Oregon always struggled when they hit the big name competition. The media would have us believe nobody could stop Kelly's offense and that's not true. Whenever they had the athletic advantage (which was often in the Pac 10) Oregon would dominate. In college it is easier to isolate your faster players (when you have a lot of them) against slower players but talent in the NFL is far better balanced. I believe after 4 games his plays will be figured out and the going won't be so easy.

 

The presumption the only way to beat this offense is to have your offense make long drives is partially correct but keep in mind the point is to win a game not necessarily "stop" his offense. Forcing Chip's offense to go 3-and-out in 30 seconds (or 6 and out in 60 sec) really hurts his defense and gets you more plays as well. I don't think the Eagles defense is that good to begin with but tonight they succeeded by relying heavily on blitzes that left huge holes open behind them. RGIII and the Redskins were not prepared for this, however, teams will figure this out very quickly and I think we will see a lot of big plays given up.

 

As far as the Eagles offense and all read-options...just go hit the QB. These plays have always been around in college there's a reason they weren't used much in the NFL. And I don't buy the story that we haven't had talented running and passing QBs (Steve Young for one) in the past. In the NFL your QB determines your success more than any other player and it's a brutal 16 game season so protecting the QB from hits is of paramount importance. Unlike recruiting for college where elite programs find it easier to keep talent in the pipeline, finding your next NFL QB is a crapshoot. QBs who are predominately runners (average accuracy or below as passers) can take you far in college but who has done that in the NFL? National Championship rosters are littered with the names of these players. I could be wrong but Jim Harbaugh didn't sound as if he likes his QB taking hits on run fakes.

 

I'll stand alone, or in the minority, that this offense won't be looking so elite by mid-year.

 

The bolded part made me think of what happened to the 85 Bears team when they ran into Marino. If the Eagles continue to send the house on D, there are multiple teams with very accurate QBs who will pick them apart. This is not 1985, and the level of QB play - not to mention the league's tendency to promote passing in general - is better than it was in years past.

 

This double-edged sword will be dull by midseason when players are worn out, injuries pile up, and teams force Vick to actually throw the ball more.

[balta1701-A]

It really seems like a double edged sword to me. When it works, it could wear out a D. It seems like it would wear out their D when it doesn't tho.

The early turnovers by Washington really set things up perfectly for the Eagles to exhaust Washington's D early, they had to go out there again and again.

[CrackerDog]

This double-edged sword will be dull by midseason when players are worn out, injuries pile up, and teams force Vick to actually throw the ball more.

 

Vick's pass to his TE for the TD was a laser. I'm not sure forcing him to throw will work. He's pretty good. But he'll weaken as the season rolls on. The human body isn't made to take that much punishment and QB bodies can't get hammered by LB bodies for long before performance degrades.

[Bears4Ever_34]

If by figure it out you mean, hit Michael Vick every freaking play until he either doesn't want to run or gets injured, then I completely agree. That's what the NFL defenses will do. And it will drastically alter the Eagles' offense, because, let's be honest, the running prowess of Nick Foles and/or Matt Barkley scares nobody.

 

The pass protection looked fantastic in the 1st quarter, but began to break down as the game went on. I thought they were pretty careful in having Vick run around though. Most of the time the options were to hand it off to McCoy or throw it down field. Definitely something to keep an eye on as the weeks go by.

 

Having watched Kelly's offense at Oregon a lot I will say this: Gary Crowton's offense looked unbeatable in his first start.

 

Oregon always struggled when they hit the big name competition. The media would have us believe nobody could stop Kelly's offense and that's not true. Whenever they had the athletic advantage (which was often in the Pac 10) Oregon would dominate. In college it is easier to isolate your faster players (when you have a lot of them) against slower players but talent in the NFL is far better balanced. I believe after 4 games his plays will be figured out and the going won't be so easy.

 

The presumption the only way to beat this offense is to have your offense make long drives is partially correct but keep in mind the point is to win a game not necessarily "stop" his offense. Forcing Chip's offense to go 3-and-out in 30 seconds (or 6 and out in 60 sec) really hurts his defense and gets you more plays as well. I don't think the Eagles defense is that good to begin with but tonight they succeeded by relying heavily on blitzes that left huge holes open behind them. RGIII and the Redskins were not prepared for this, however, teams will figure this out very quickly and I think we will see a lot of big plays given up.

 

As far as the Eagles offense and all read-options...just go hit the QB. These plays have always been around in college there's a reason they weren't used much in the NFL. And I don't buy the story that we haven't had talented running and passing QBs (Steve Young for one) in the past. In the NFL your QB determines your success more than any other player and it's a brutal 16 game season so protecting the QB from hits is of paramount importance. Unlike recruiting for college where elite programs find it easier to keep talent in the pipeline, finding your next NFL QB is a crapshoot. QBs who are predominately runners (average accuracy or below as passers) can take you far in college but who has done that in the NFL? National Championship rosters are littered with the names of these players. I could be wrong but Jim Harbaugh didn't sound as if he likes his QB taking hits on run fakes.

 

I'll stand alone, or in the minority, that this offense won't be looking so elite by mid-year.

 

Fair points. That is part of the formula for success against the Chip Kelly offense. I don't think you can beat them though relying solely on defense. If you're going to beat the Eagles this year, you better have a good offense yourself. They are going to score points as long as they keep this tempo up. They'll have more opportunities to score. What we didn't see happen last night, and what I'm curious to find out moving forward, is how worn down the defense gets in the 2nd half defending this team. The Eagles were up by so much early on that they slowed everything down by the end of the 3rd quarter, which allowed the defense to get rest. If they kept the foot on the gas pedal, they probably could have turned the game into a joke.

 

Not sure how good their team is yet. They may be a playoff team. I think the offense will put up points, but the defense will not be able to keep up, and that will be their downfall.

[jason]

Vick's pass to his TE for the TD was a laser. I'm not sure forcing him to throw will work. He's pretty good. But he'll weaken as the season rolls on. The human body isn't made to take that much punishment and QB bodies can't get hammered by LB bodies for long before performance degrades.

 

Vick has always, and will always, be a fairly inaccurate passer. That will not magically change. Add in the punishment, and it'll continue to degrade.

[CrackerDog]

Vick has always, and will always, be a fairly inaccurate passer. That will not magically change. Add in the punishment, and it'll continue to degrade.

 

My recollection is he gets more inaccurate as you put hits on him. Favre used to be the exact opposite. Ol' Jethro would take it as a personal slight and come back at you even stronger. God, I hated that guy. But he earned my respect, even as a Packer.

[AZ54]

While watching highlights last night I noticed the slight limp Vick had as he walked off the field late in the game, and so it begins. Anyway, Chip Kelly also plans on practicing on Tuesdays which is when most teams are letting their players rest or come in for treatment. We'll see how this all adds up.

[Stinger226]

While watching highlights last night I noticed the slight limp Vick had as he walked off the field late in the game, and so it begins. Anyway, Chip Kelly also plans on practicing on Tuesdays which is when most teams are letting their players rest or come in for treatment. We'll see how this all adds up.

One game is to of a small sample to judge a whole season. It will have its bumps in the road, but entertaining for now.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

So you're going to use the first game RGIII comes back from ACL surgery as evidence for how the league has figured out how to stop the read option, and then ignore what just happened with Philadelphia?

 

The 49'ers ran a bunch of read option stuff yesterday. Kaepernick just didn't take it and run with it much at all. He threw it or handed it off instead. That's why it's called an option. It's the threat of not knowing where the ball is going that's killing defenses. I don't know why people think it's all of a sudden suppose to just go away. Now if they all threw the ball like Tim Tebow.. Then I could see it.

Uh no, the 49ers only ran 7 read option plays vs Green Bay.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Uh no, the 49ers only ran 7 read option plays vs Green Bay.

That'd be wrong. 7 rushing attempts doesn't mean 7 read option plays. There were more times where the ball was handed off, and times where the quarterback pulled it back and threw it down field.

 

What are you trying to argue at this point? It's beyond clear that it hasn't been figured out yet, and now there are even more teams that are using it as part of their package.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I think I know what the difference between run plays and read option plays are. I wasn't born last year. They ran 7 read option plays, per ESPN. The pistol isn't the exact same thing as read option.

 

What I'm arguing is that this will be figured out. The wildcat had 2+ years in it. This is now into year 2 of the read option. Give it time.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I think I know what the difference between run plays and read option plays are. I wasn't born last year. They ran 7 read option plays, per ESPN. The pistol isn't the exact same thing as read option.

 

What I'm arguing is that this will be figured out. The wildcat had 2+ years in it. This is now into year 2 of the read option. Give it time.

It's called the read option, hence the "option" part of it, meaning there are choices that involve both running and throwing. The quarterback can take it and run, he can give it to the RB, or in some cases he can fake it and throw it down field.

 

The 49'ers used a lot of their play action stuff out of that read option package in the game against GB. I don't know how ESPN keeps track of those type of plays, but they weren't watching the same game I was.

 

I don't see why people think something so difficult to defend is going to be stopped, just because. It's been 3 years since Tim Tebow and Cam Newton started running this play, and it's still working better than ever today. We can say it's been figured out when teams stop using it. People like to compare the wildcat to the read option, but it's a bad comparison because you had RB's who couldn't throw. With no passing involved (or at least no passing that warranted respect), it was only a matter of time before it got figured out.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

It's called the read option, hence the "option" part of it, meaning there are choices that involve both running and throwing. The quarterback can take it and run, he can give it to the RB, or in some cases he can fake it and throw it down field.

 

The 49'ers used a lot of their play action stuff out of that read option package in the game against GB. I don't know how ESPN keeps track of those type of plays, but they weren't watching the same game I was.

 

I don't see why people think something so difficult to defend is going to be stopped, just because. It's been 3 years since Tim Tebow and Cam Newton started running this play, and it's still working better than ever today. We can say it's been figured out when teams stop using it. People like to compare the wildcat to the read option, but it's a bad comparison because you had RB's who couldn't throw. With no passing involved (or at least no passing that warranted respect), it was only a matter of time before it got figured out.

Yes, exactly. The read option. The 49ers only ran it the read option 7 times, according to ESPN. I missed the first 20 minutes of the game because I was on the way back from the Bears game. Honestly, I think I saw it done 4-5 times, so they might be right.

 

Right away, you get so angry. Relax. Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean you need to start underlining and bolding and shit.

 

Tebow and Newton are horrible examples. So far, Newton's been a bust and Tebow was the worst QB ever. Next time, use guys like Wilson, RG3 and Kaepernick, because using Tebow and Newton will get you laughed at.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Yes, exactly. The read option. The 49ers only ran it the read option 7 times, according to ESPN. I missed the first 20 minutes of the game because I was on the way back from the Bears game. Honestly, I think I saw it done 4-5 times, so they might be right.

 

Right away, you get so angry. Relax. Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean you need to start underlining and bolding and shit.

 

Tebow and Newton are horrible examples. So far, Newton's been a bust and Tebow was the worst QB ever. Next time, use guys like Wilson, RG3 and Kaepernick, because using Tebow and Newton will get you laughed at.

 

I'm sensing a disconnect between what I posted and your comprehension of it. Your last sentence doesn't even make sense.

 

I used Tebow and Newton because they were the first quarterbacks who used the read option 3 seasons ago when it took the NFL by surprise. Kapernick, RGIII, and Russell Wilson took it to another level last year when the package expanded. Now about half the teams in the league are using it in some way or another.