How the lines stack up

[scs787]

While out driving I was listening to 670 and whoever it was (4 o clock hour) brought up an grading system that gives both offensive and defensive lines ratings based on several different things, sacks, disruptions, holding calls for/against, and they then devise a percentage off that. To the surprise of no one the Bears DLine ranks 2nd to last with a 17.5% rating . Only the 0-4 Giants rank lower at 17.1%.

 

The OL, to some peoples surprise ranks 24th on this list with a pressure rate of 29.9%

 

The OL will obviously have some bumps in the road but over the first quarter of the season I'm a little surprised no one has knocked their play.

 

The DL on the other hand obviously deserves all the crap they've been given here and I honestly don't see how they will get any better barring some kind of a trade.

 

Here's a link to the article. http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/03/tamba-hali-r...ovich-pressure/ ....The grid showing the ratings I speak of are at the bottom.

[madlithuanian]

Interesting.

 

The smell test says we all know that the D has been poor in that regard.

 

But, the OL hasn't looked 24th. It's interesting that theyare ranked as such based on this particular scale. I'd be curious to see the game by game stats. The first 2 games I think would be very high. The 3rd mediocre, and the 4th poor.

 

While out driving I was listening to 670 and whoever it was (4 o clock hour) brought up an grading system that gives both offensive and defensive lines ratings based on several different things, sacks, disruptions, holding calls for/against, and they then devise a percentage off that. To the surprise of no one the Bears DLine ranks 2nd to last with a 17.5% rating . Only the 0-4 Giants rank lower at 17.1%.

 

The OL, to some peoples surprise ranks 24th on this list with a pressure rate of 29.9%

 

The OL will obviously have some bumps in the road but over the first quarter of the season I'm a little surprised no one has knocked their play.

 

The DL on the other hand obviously deserves all the crap they've been given here and I honestly don't see how they will get any better barring some kind of a trade.

 

Here's a link to the article. http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/03/tamba-hali-r...ovich-pressure/ ....The grid showing the ratings I speak of are at the bottom.

 

[AZ54]

We have played against some good to very good defenses IMO. I include the winless Steelers in that assessment.

 

Offense OTOH have been good (Bengals), bad (vikings), bad (Steelers), good (Lions).

 

Considering that I think the Oline has done very well especially considering we have 4 new starters and two are rookies.

 

The Dline is an issue for and even more so now that we lost Melton. Yet Peppers has recovered and now looks like the player we all love to watch. This will help a lot moving forward. Wotton has been solid. I think Paea and Collins can be solid but we need to see it. The problem is there is nobody behind the DT starters and really SMC hasn't done much either to backup the DE's. If this continues we'll struggle all season long.

 

LBs have also had issues with DJ Williams returning from missing almost all of preseason. He's looked better lately but has plenty of room to improve.

[Uncle Buck]

I agree with earlier statements about the defenses the team has faced. I would add, at least as far as the sniff test we have applied to the D-line, that the O-line is benefitting at times from the impact of the offensive scheme, the short drops and swing passes to Forte. Visually, they appear to hold up better when Jay delivers the ball quickly and efficiently.

[scs787]

Interesting.

 

The smell test says we all know that the D has been poor in that regard.

 

But, the OL hasn't looked 24th. It's interesting that theyare ranked as such based on this particular scale. I'd be curious to see the game by game stats. The first 2 games I think would be very high. The 3rd mediocre, and the 4th poor.

 

Sadly the site just started doing it week 3 when they ranked 15th giving up a pressure on 28% of passing plays. Their 42 Hurries through week 3 was 8th worst.

 

Looking at the differential from week 3 to week 4 they gave up 26 hurries against the Lions, which is a massive number, and could have lead to why Jay had an awful game. The 68 Hurries is now 3rd worst, 1 less than the Ravens and 3 less than the Eagles.

 

But to others points about the good Ds they faced, according these rankings that's not so true. They are ranked 10th(Detroit), 21st (Steelers), 25th(Bengals), and 29th(Vikings) on the pressure scale....NOLA ranks 9th on this scale.

 

Rather surprising stats. The sacks aren't there but the pressure certainly has. Like Buck alluded to, I think the reason the sacks aren't there is due to how quick Jay has gotten rid of the ball...If this was last year a lot more of those hurries would turn into sacks.

[madlithuanian]

nteresting points...

 

We knew there would be a learning curve for the new OL. I'm sure this is part of the growing pains. And it does seem Jay is being coached to unload the ball quicker.

 

Hopefully we can see some continued improvement.

 

Sadly the site just started doing it week 3 when they ranked 15th giving up a pressure on 28% of passing plays. Their 42 Hurries through week 3 was 8th worst.

 

Looking at the differential from week 3 to week 4 they gave up 26 hurries against the Lions, which is a massive number, and could have lead to why Jay had an awful game. The 68 Hurries is now 3rd worst, 1 less than the Ravens and 3 less than the Eagles.

 

But to others points about the good Ds they faced, according these rankings that's not so true. They are ranked 10th(Detroit), 21st (Steelers), 25th(Bengals), and 29th(Vikings) on the pressure scale....NOLA ranks 9th on this scale.

 

Rather surprising stats. The sacks aren't there but the pressure certainly has. Like Buck alluded to, I think the reason the sacks aren't there is due to how quick Jay has gotten rid of the ball...If this was last year a lot more of those hurries would turn into sacks.

 

[jason]

While out driving I was listening to 670 and whoever it was (4 o clock hour) brought up an grading system that gives both offensive and defensive lines ratings based on several different things, sacks, disruptions, holding calls for/against, and they then devise a percentage off that. To the surprise of no one the Bears DLine ranks 2nd to last with a 17.5% rating . Only the 0-4 Giants rank lower at 17.1%.

 

The OL, to some peoples surprise ranks 24th on this list with a pressure rate of 29.9%

 

The OL will obviously have some bumps in the road but over the first quarter of the season I'm a little surprised no one has knocked their play.

 

The DL on the other hand obviously deserves all the crap they've been given here and I honestly don't see how they will get any better barring some kind of a trade.

 

Here's a link to the article. http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/03/tamba-hali-r...ovich-pressure/ ....The grid showing the ratings I speak of are at the bottom.

 

68 hurries in four games (or less if I'm reading your replies correctly)? I call BS. There is no freaking way.

 

Cutler has attempted 148 passes. He's rushed 11 times. He's been sacked a total of 6 times. That's 165. Let's just say there are 10 more plays in there for the anomalies. Even at 68 out of 175, that is nearly 40%. Sorry, but I've watched the games, and there is no way in hell he's been hurried or pressured in 40% of his drop-backs. What's their criteria for hurries? Someone within ten feet?

 

I suspect the person doing the analysis for Bears games is a little more loose with his interpretation of "hurry" than the folks doing the analysis on other games.

[scs787]

68 hurries in four games (or less if I'm reading your replies correctly)? I call BS. There is no freaking way.

 

Cutler has attempted 148 passes. He's rushed 11 times. He's been sacked a total of 6 times. That's 165. Let's just say there are 10 more plays in there for the anomalies. Even at 68 out of 175, that is nearly 40%. Sorry, but I've watched the games, and there is no way in hell he's been hurried or pressured in 40% of his drop-backs. What's their criteria for hurries? Someone within ten feet?

 

I suspect the person doing the analysis for Bears games is a little more loose with his interpretation of "hurry" than the folks doing the analysis on other games.

 

There's a shock, you object to this.

 

Here is there description of a hurry...

 

Hurry (.5 points): When the actions of a defender causes the quarterback to alter his throw or footwork. This is what defenses call “moving a quarterback off his spot.”

 

Ironically...

These three categories—drawn holds, hurries and hits—are not official statistics, but they’re extremely important. A team can have zero sacks, but if they accumulate hurries or hits, they’re making life extremely uncomfortable for a quarterback. The hurries and hits were shared with us by our friends at ProFootballFocus.com. Our hits and hurries include plays wiped out by penalty.

 

I'm not getting into this argument again, believe what you want.

[madlithuanian]

I do agree...

 

40% seems high. It just doesn't pass the smell test. I'd see no problem with maybe a 33%...it wouldn't be that out of line that one out of 3 down is a hurry...

 

Then again, maybe it is... I also wonder if Jay's mechanics, a mobile guy that likes to move around a bit, etc...plays a part and he gets labeled as hurried more often not because he's actually hurried.

 

68 hurries in four games (or less if I'm reading your replies correctly)? I call BS. There is no freaking way.

 

Cutler has attempted 148 passes. He's rushed 11 times. He's been sacked a total of 6 times. That's 165. Let's just say there are 10 more plays in there for the anomalies. Even at 68 out of 175, that is nearly 40%. Sorry, but I've watched the games, and there is no way in hell he's been hurried or pressured in 40% of his drop-backs. What's their criteria for hurries? Someone within ten feet?

 

I suspect the person doing the analysis for Bears games is a little more loose with his interpretation of "hurry" than the folks doing the analysis on other games.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

68 hurries in four games (or less if I'm reading your replies correctly)? I call BS. There is no freaking way.

 

Cutler has attempted 148 passes. He's rushed 11 times. He's been sacked a total of 6 times. That's 165. Let's just say there are 10 more plays in there for the anomalies. Even at 68 out of 175, that is nearly 40%. Sorry, but I've watched the games, and there is no way in hell he's been hurried or pressured in 40% of his drop-backs. What's their criteria for hurries? Someone within ten feet?

 

I suspect the person doing the analysis for Bears games is a little more loose with his interpretation of "hurry" than the folks doing the analysis on other games.

 

Without itemizing the details there is a possibility if you took the raw percentages of hurries from each game you might be able to swing in the 40% neighborhood. There is no question that Cutler was "hurried" (if not harried) during the game last week. He turned the ball over four times so something was going on. A lot of that was due to his reverting to his old mechanics and holding the ball longer than he should have. Although that necessarily can't be counted against the O-line.

 

And in the Minnesota game, another clunker for Cutler where he turned the ball over 3 (?) times, again he was rushed a much higher percentage of the time. All things being simple, I would say that "40%" probably isn't that far off.

[scs787]

I do agree...

 

40% seems high. It just doesn't pass the smell test. I'd see no problem with maybe a 33%...it wouldn't be that out of line that one out of 3 down is a hurry...

 

Then again, maybe it is... I also wonder if Jay's mechanics, a mobile guy that likes to move around a bit, etc...plays a part and he gets labeled as hurried more often not because he's actually hurried.

 

Before the Detroit game, which we both agree was poor, the percentage was actually right at 33%.

 

Detroit just did work Sunday. Both Suh and Izzy were ranked amongst the top Tackles and Ends in pressures with 11 combined.

 

 

[Uncle Buck]

There's a shock, you object to this.

 

Here is there description of a hurry...

 

 

 

Ironically...

 

 

I'm not getting into this argument again, believe what you want.

 

 

Not for nothing, I am not arguing any of the criteria; but that definition leads to some intense film study, and would you not agree some subjective assumption. Again not arguing, just amazed at he depth that would go into computing this statistic.

[Uncle Buck]

Someone mentioned Jay falling back into old habits, could we also assume that he was seeing the "ghosts" (Jay's word) again, and altering his footwork, et.al on his own without any really true pressure?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Someone mentioned Jay falling back into old habits, could we also assume that he was seeing the "ghosts" (Jay's word) again, and altering his footwork, et.al on his own without any really true pressure?

 

Yes.

[scs787]

Not for nothing, I am not arguing any of the criteria; but that definition leads to some intense film study, and would you not agree some subjective assumption. Again not arguing, just amazed at he depth that would go into computing this statistic.

 

As a guy who "worked" for pff for about a week(wasn't being paid and a paid opportunity came up) I know that film study could take anywhere from 7-12 hours.

 

There may be some assumption involved but by definition it's pretty cut and dry.

[adam]

The hurries are definitely somewhat subjective because modifying footwork may have been due to other variables.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Jason about the 40%. There's almost no way.. Cutler self-hurries himself a lot, which they may or may not count against him. I don't know. They gave up 3 sacks last week against the Lions but I'm pretty sure every single one of them were coverage sacks.

[jason]

There's a shock, you object to this.

 

Here is there description of a hurry...

 

Ironically...

 

I'm not getting into this argument again, believe what you want.

 

No surprise I have a problem with BS stats. How the F can they determine if a QBs footwork changed as a result of the D pressure?! The big things? Sure. But there percentage is way off, and borderline ridiculous. No way it's 40%. And unless the same person reviews ALL the games, human error and bias make this stat virtually meaningless.

[Mongo3451]

No surprise I have a problem with BS stats. How the F can they determine if a QBs footwork changed as a result of the D pressure?! The big things? Sure. But there percentage is way off, and borderline ridiculous. No way it's 40%. And unless the same person reviews ALL the games, human error and bias make this stat virtually meaningless.

It doesn't account for good pocket pressures, where the qb can step up either. That can result in big plays. That's the big difference this year.