bear trap Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 But i would not mind throwing a third rd pick at washington and try to get cousins if they don't bring cutler back.. he too has an arm, escapability, and is smart with the ball... not to mention a former spartan who isn't new to playing in cold weather... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 But i would not mind throwing a third rd pick at washington and try to get cousins if they don't bring cutler back.. he too has an arm, escapability, and is smart with the ball... not to mention a former spartan who isn't new to playing in cold weather... this season is toast. i wouldn't give up ANY draft picks for anyone unless it is a player in his prime with an up future and not a QB. we will need them for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted October 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 this season is toast. i wouldn't give up ANY draft picks for anyone unless it is a player in his prime with an up future and not a QB. we will need them for next season. I am referring to the offseason hense the i"if we don't bring cutler back " part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 But i would not mind throwing a third rd pick at washington and try to get cousins if they don't bring cutler back.. he too has an arm, escapability, and is smart with the ball... not to mention a former spartan who isn't new to playing in cold weather... "Crazy". But not really a bad idea. Cousins is a better player than where he was drafted at. It's almost like Washington has two starting QB's...just with different skills sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Maybe they can give us a discount since they crippled us ridding us of 3 pro-bowl players... "Crazy". But not really a bad idea. Cousins is a better player than where he was drafted at. It's almost like Washington has two starting QB's...just with different skills sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 i would make that trade after the season is over if we are moving on from Cutler. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 i would make that trade after the season is over if we are moving on from Cutler. Peace That would not be a bad idea, but I think with all the lousy QB play in the NFL, he might be in demand. Maybe go get him now, while they are lousy and feel the need to change things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 That would not be a bad idea, but I think with all the lousy QB play in the NFL, he might be in demand. Maybe go get him now, while they are lousy and feel the need to change things up. Yeah, I think there's a good chance they'll hold on to him for another year or two and then try to get the "Matt Schaub" type deal for him, with multiple draft picks, right before he hits free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 let me get this straight.... we are talking about not signing a pro-bowl qb in cutler who has years left on his career to do what? i have heard talk on here of drafting a QB for his replacement in the 3rd round? is that right? so it appears that mark trestman is not just a good qb coach but can actually perform heavenly miracles? hmmm.... how many years will that project take before we know if this 3rd round pick can really play the position? 3 years or more? and then what? draft another one and get onboard the qb merry-go-round or is it by that time trestman gets fired after 4-5 years of failure and we can start all over again? or how about this 4th round draft pick in kirk cousins to replace cutler? lets see, what is his nfl accomplishments? 2012 season game 14: skins vs ravens - limited play - 2 for 2 - 26 yds - 1 td game 15: skins vs browns - started - 26 and 37 for 329 yds - 2 td and 1 int yea, lets get rid of cutler and bet the franchise on a qb with one start in the nfl against the freaking cleveland browns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 let me get this straight.... we are talking about not signing a pro-bowl qb in cutler who has years left on his career to do what? i have heard talk on here of drafting a QB for his replacement in the 3rd round? is that right? so it appears that mark trestman is not just a good qb coach but can actually perform heavenly miracles? hmmm.... how many years will that project take before we know if this 3rd round pick can really play the position? 3 years or more? and then what? draft another one and get onboard the qb merry-go-round or is it by that time trestman gets fired after 4-5 years of failure and we can start all over again? or how about this 4th round draft pick in kirk cousins to replace cutler? lets see, what is his nfl accomplishments? 2012 season game 14: skins vs ravens - limited play - 2 for 2 - 26 yds - 1 td game 15: skins vs browns - started - 26 and 37 for 329 yds - 2 td and 1 int yea, lets get rid of cutler and bet the franchise on a qb with one start in the nfl against the freaking cleveland browns. :cheers :cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 let me get this straight.... we are talking about not signing a pro-bowl qb in cutler who has years left on his career to do what? i have heard talk on here of drafting a QB for his replacement in the 3rd round? is that right? so it appears that mark trestman is not just a good qb coach but can actually perform heavenly miracles? hmmm.... how many years will that project take before we know if this 3rd round pick can really play the position? 3 years or more? and then what? draft another one and get onboard the qb merry-go-round or is it by that time trestman gets fired after 4-5 years of failure and we can start all over again? or how about this 4th round draft pick in kirk cousins to replace cutler? lets see, what is his nfl accomplishments? 2012 season game 14: skins vs ravens - limited play - 2 for 2 - 26 yds - 1 td game 15: skins vs browns - started - 26 and 37 for 329 yds - 2 td and 1 int yea, lets get rid of cutler and bet the franchise on a qb with one start in the nfl against the freaking cleveland browns. okay... once again... FOR ANYONE who can't understand or don't know how to f#ckin read.... my statement: "IF THEY DON'T BRING CUTLER BACK" if you can't understand that let me know and i will have tommy come back there and hit you in the head with a tack hammer because you're a retard! I never said i wanted cutler gone... just what if they choose not to bring him back for any reason be it his history of injuries ( yeah including concussions) , the money, or even his inconsistency .... frankly if they don't bring him back i would have to think it was because he may want too much... face iit he's not worth elite money and romo money is pushin it... he's one concussion away from retirement figuratively speaking and has had injury problems last few yrs and just hasn't gotten it done... gosh... try having an open mind before you jump ass backwards on someone's post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 okay... once again... FOR ANYONE who can't understand or don't know how to f#ckin read.... my statement: "IF THEY DON'T BRING CUTLER BACK" if you can't understand that let me know and i will have tommy come back there and hit you in the head with a tack hammer because you're a retard! I never said i wanted cutler gone... just what if they choose not to bring him back for any reason be it his history of injuries ( yeah including concussions) , the money, or even his inconsistency .... frankly if they don't bring him back i would have to think it was because he may want too much... face iit he's not worth elite money and romo money is pushin it... he's one concussion away from retirement figuratively speaking and has had injury problems last few yrs and just hasn't gotten it done... gosh... try having an open mind before you jump ass backwards on someone's post... did i SAY you said that??? it was a freaking COMMENT on those that have stated that or implied that trestman can somehow make chicken salad out of any pile of chickenshit in the yard!!!!! maybe it's YOU who can't seem to comprehend what you are reading!!! next time DUCK when the hammer comes down!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 let me get this straight.... we are talking about not signing a pro-bowl qb in cutler who has years left on his career to do what? i have heard talk on here of drafting a QB for his replacement in the 3rd round? is that right? so it appears that mark trestman is not just a good qb coach but can actually perform heavenly miracles? hmmm.... how many years will that project take before we know if this 3rd round pick can really play the position? 3 years or more? and then what? draft another one and get onboard the qb merry-go-round or is it by that time trestman gets fired after 4-5 years of failure and we can start all yea, lets get rid of cutler and bet the franchise on a qb with one start in the nfl against the freaking cleveland browns" hmmm last sentence sounds like you are saying it... so if that isn't then what is... i was simply saying an option if we decide not to bring him back for what ever.... reason... wipe the hammer off when done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Realistically, it is possible that Cutler will want more than the Bears are willing to offer. He is not worth top 5 QB money. I would say he is not worth top 10. Personally, I would consider franchising if we cannot work out a deal and, if they find a QB they really want in the draft, then pull the tag. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Further... why would going in a different direction be betting the franchise??? Cutler has a history of injuries now... broken finger, knee, groin, and concussion... if we decided to go in a different direction i would not consider it betting the franchise cutler does a lot of good things but he also does a lot of bad things... he sure as hell wasn't worth the price we paid as far as I'm concerned... if we did move on what's the drop off??? One more int a game... highly doubt it... this yr he's done decent but then again we haven't played a really good team yet other than cincy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 hmmm last sentence sounds like you are saying it... that sounds like i am saying exactly what? so if that isn't then what is... i would tell you if i could figure out what you are talking about. i will contact a cryptographer and get back with you on it. i was simply saying an option if we decide not to bring him back for what ever.... reason... wipe the hammer off when done you don't seem to understand the concept of a "quote" when replying on this message board. my post WAS NOT replying to your specific post otherwise it would have had your name and the text body of your quote in a box. in fact i had no problem with your stating that if cutler WAS GONE going after an option like cousins. i am not saying he is even close to what i would do as i know nearly nothing of his NFL skills but hey it's your opinion. what i do have a problem with is anyone who thinks cutler has no value to this franchise and we could plug any qb into this system (which is a system we know hardly ANYTHING about at this time) and never miss a beat. that is complete bullshit and any chicago fan after watching the dregs of the nfl walk across the chalk for nearly THIRTY YEARS and give us the performances we have watched at QB and believes this is true is completely delusional. wipe the hammer when done? with you? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Realistically, it is possible that Cutler will want more than the Bears are willing to offer. He is not worth top 5 QB money. I would say he is not worth top 10. Personally, I would consider franchising if we cannot work out a deal and, if they find a QB they really want in the draft, then pull the tag. Peace if we can't get a cap friendly contract structured with cutler then i agree you franchise him. if trestman can't judge the talent level of cutler by now he isn't even close to the qb guru we have hoped he was. what ever happens we do NOT need to draft a qb high this year unless it is as sure a thing as you can get in the top 10 of the draft and trestman wants to dump cutler anyway. otherwise we are shooting at the moon yet again with a low 1st rd pick or later. it is just way too risky while the rest of the team is defunct of talent. with cutler in the fold, even for one year, it gives us breathing room to either get a long term contract worked out or dump him with at least some time to look for the replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Further... why would going in a different direction be betting the franchise??? Cutler has a history of injuries now... broken finger, knee, groin, and concussion... if we decided to go in a different direction i would not consider it betting the franchise cutler does a lot of good things but he also does a lot of bad things... he sure as hell wasn't worth the price we paid as far as I'm concerned... if we did move on what's the drop off??? One more int a game... highly doubt it... this yr he's done decent but then again we haven't played a really good team yet other than cincy... i'm sorry but if you are looking at the injury aspect of cutler you don't know what you are talking about. these injuries can happen to ANY quarterback at any time and any age. we are not talking about a recurring shoulder injury or back problems that will not get better or contribute to the end of a qb's career. if you really want to look at just how tough cutler really is then look at the time he has been in chicago up to this year. there is not many if any qb's in the nfl that could have taken that kind of punishment for that long. to say he only had the problems he has had is to me amazing. so please... stop yourself if you are suggesting his injury history is any problem. as far as his record? look at the previous imbeciles that ran this team including the mighty angelo who in essence bought a ferarri in cutler and used him to pull hay wagons. it all leads to the perfect recipe for failure of any qb including the likes of brady or manning/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Further... why would going in a different direction be betting the franchise??? one last item... if you don't think getting rid of a GOOD+ quarterback and going in a different direction at this point for a complete unknown then i suggest you never partake in the games of chance. that is rolling the dice in a big way that effects this franchise for another 3-5 years for no reason at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 what i do have a problem with is anyone who thinks cutler has no value to this franchise and we could plug any qb into this system (which is a system we know hardly ANYTHING about at this time) and never miss a beat. that is complete bullshit and any chicago fan after watching the dregs of the nfl walk across the chalk for nearly THIRTY YEARS and give us the performances we have watched at QB and believes this is true is completely delusional. What say you IF McCown has as much if not better success for the time he fills in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 i'm sorry but if you are looking at the injury aspect of cutler you don't know what you are talking about. so please... stop yourself if you are suggesting his injury history is any problem. The injury history HAS to be considered. He is 30 years old and just suffered a relatively significant injury. An injury to other players that has proven debilitating. Maybe not to the point of being an invalid but less capable in their profession. Concussion history is what it is. Cutler has a history, one more hit to the noggin could be the calling card for his career. Some of his other injuries; finger, knee etc by themselves are not factors. But they do add up. And you're right, he has taken a pretty good lickin since playing in Chicago. But what has that done to his overall health? If he pulls an Adrian Peterson-esque return then history (and i) will be flat wrong. And to be frank, id be happy to in this case. Lastly and in regards to his skills. Plain and simple, he's degraded. I dont necessarily agree with the thought of his gradual progression this year. He's turned over the ball a few times in critical moments. A few of them resulting in direct scores for the opposition. That is a problem. He's never been a "Ferrari" per se but more like an Accord with the upper end trim line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 The injury history HAS to be considered. He is 30 years old and just suffered a relatively significant injury. An injury to other players that has proven debilitating. Maybe not to the point of being an invalid but less capable in their profession. Concussion history is what it is. Cutler has a history, one more hit to the noggin could be the calling card for his career. Some of his other injuries; finger, knee etc by themselves are not factors. But they do add up. And you're right, he has taken a pretty good lickin since playing in Chicago. But what has that done to his overall health? If he pulls an Adrian Peterson-esque return then history (and i) will be flat wrong. And to be frank, id be happy to in this case. Lastly and in regards to his skills. Plain and simple, he's degraded. I dont necessarily agree with the thought of his gradual progression this year. He's turned over the ball a few times in critical moments. A few of them resulting in direct scores for the opposition. That is a problem. He's never been a "Ferrari" per se but more like an Accord with the upper end trim line. I would say the car comparison is a good one, but an Accord with all the bows and whistles. I dont think injury is at the forefront of anybody's thinking. He has had some, name a top 15 QB that hasnt. He is at a position that takes a lot of abuse. If you look at his history propably not any more than other QBs. It will come down to what the sucess is for the rest of the year. If we fair well without him, they may take the risk of going in a different direction. We have only 30 players under contract for next year. I think with a (QB guru) not my speak, drafting a QB that starts right away is a possibility for next year. I would say a salary of 3 mil a year looks more attractive than a franchise tag of around 18 mil. It is just an option to look at , how he plays for the rest of the year, our team success, many things to ponder going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 What say you IF McCown has as much if not better success for the time he fills in? josh mccown is a good backup qb in this system and that is all. you do not want to base your franchise on this qb. here is why... 1. he will be 35 years old next july. that gives him at the very best 1-2 years of top performance left in his career. if you want to build a system around him it's too late. 2. he just is not a good starting quarterback. prior to the last game as a bear in which his qb rating was 119.6 (for one game) the highest qb rating he has ever had was 74.9 in arizona in 2005 starting 6 games. that was under dennis green as a coach. although green is a joke, he was a pretty good developer of qb's and offenses. the following year he was released by the cards. that says a lot when a qb in his prime is cut and ends up in detroit the following year as a backup. sure anything can happen but realistically mccown is fools gold that hit on one game and now everyone wants to pencil him in as a possible replacement starting qb in chicago. he is doing what he does best... backing up a real starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 The injury history HAS to be considered. He is 30 years old and just suffered a relatively significant injury. An injury to other players that has proven debilitating. Maybe not to the point of being an invalid but less capable in their profession. well, here are some qb's that did pretty well with an injury history: tom brady - nagging shoulder injuries throughout his career.season ending mcl / acl knee injury 2008, shoulder finger rib injuries in 2009, shoulder foot injuries 2010, knee injury 2013 (he is now 36 years old), peyton manning - season ending SERIOUS neck injury - knee injuries, gluteal (what ever that is) joe montana - neck surgery 1986, sciatic nerve problems from back injury, there were only 3 seasons montana played all games in a season due to injuries. i could go on and on with this but the fact remains nearly all good qb's suffer from injuries and play on to have excellent careers. Concussion history is what it is. Cutler has a history, one more hit to the noggin could be the calling card for his career. concussions are a serious concern but nearly every player in college and the NFL has suffered concussions or is at risk every single play. nearly all the stats for concussions in the 20th century were never even reported. a qb is at far less risk than a running back, wide receiver or tight end. where is the concern for resigning marshall or jeffries? Some of his other injuries; finger, knee etc by themselves are not factors. But they do add up. And you're right, he has taken a pretty good lickin since playing in Chicago. But what has that done to his overall health? again, if you do some research nearly every player in the nfl including qb's has a shopping list of injuries. again i will say a qb SHOULDN'T take the same kind of abuse a running back or wide receiver takes and without the moronic clowns we had as a gm and coaching staff here anymore it looks a lot brighter for any qb in our system to avoid injuries. Lastly and in regards to his skills. Plain and simple, he's degraded. I don't necessarily agree with the thought of his gradual progression this year. He's turned over the ball a few times in critical moments. A few of them resulting in direct scores for the opposition. That is a problem. He's never been a "Ferrari" per se but more like an Accord with the upper end trim line. degraded from what? you can't SERIOUSLY consider the previous years in chicago as any litmus test to judge his talent. i emphatically state... tom brady, peyton manning and any qb you can THINK of would have looked bad or been on IR continuously in the criminally negligent system we ran in chicago under lovie smith!!!! you don't agree with the progression of this year. hmmm.... the line we are sporting is not stellar but it certainly is a giant improvement over our past years cutler was in chicago. that said, where are they rated in the NFL at this time as a unit? individually? does that mean long is a bust? how about mills? etc. etc. etc. cutler is yet AGAIN learning a completely new system under a new head coach and OC. he has played in SEVEN games under this new system and you don't think he was progressing fast enough? what are his ratings compared to the rest of the NFL? these stellar qb's everyone brings up in the media have had years working their coaching staffs and usually very good offensive lines that have worked together for YEARS. there is only ONE player on our line that was here from last season. finally... cutler is cutler. you are going to get the INT's along with the stellar qb play, that is just the way it is. all-in-all he is a GOOD+ qb that has the potential to be EXCELLENT with good players around him and competent coaches. note: JERRY ANGELO had to know this when he brought cutler to chicago and gave up TWO first round draft picks to get him!! yet the gm and coaching staff did absolutely nothing to protect him, give him weapons or give him any chance to succeed in chicago. it was a freaking joke and lovie smith and jerry angelo share the blame and shame. EDIT: i have to comment on your honda accord statement. what exactly do you consider an upper tier qb? when cutler left denver he WAS an upper tier qb in his PRIME who had an excellent arm, very good accuracy and was able to scramble with the best of them and was selected to a PRO_BOWL. in my book that's a ferrari and you can put your honda analogy out there but it is WRONG. we did NOTHING to improve this qb through coaching. we did NOTHING to protect this qb from injury or damage. we did NOTHING to supply him with weapons to be successful. we just kept drafting defense and garbage to keep lovie and angie's jobs secure at the expense of a qb who potentially could have been the best in chicago maybe EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 degraded from what? you can't SERIOUSLY consider the previous years in chicago as any litmus test to judge his talent. i emphatically state... tom brady, peyton manning and any qb you can THINK of would have looked bad or been on IR continuously in the criminally negligent system we ran in chicago under lovie smith!!!! you don't agree with the progression of this year. hmmm.... the line we are sporting is not stellar but it certainly is a giant improvement over our past years cutler was in chicago. that said, where are they rated in the NFL at this time as a unit? individually? does that mean long is a bust? how about mills? etc. etc. etc. cutler is yet AGAIN learning a completely new system under a new head coach and OC. he has played in SEVEN games under this new system and you don't think he was progressing fast enough? what are his ratings compared to the rest of the NFL? these stellar qb's everyone brings up in the media have had years working their coaching staffs and usually very good offensive lines that have worked together for YEARS. there is only ONE player on our line that was here from last season. finally... cutler is cutler. you are going to get the INT's along with the stellar qb play, that is just the way it is. all-in-all he is a GOOD+ qb that has the potential to be EXCELLENT with good players around him and competent coaches. note: JERRY ANGELO had to know this when he brought cutler to chicago and gave up TWO first round draft picks to get him!! yet the gm and coaching staff did absolutely nothing to protect him, give him weapons or give him any chance to succeed in chicago. it was a freaking joke and lovie smith and jerry angelo share the blame and shame. we did NOTHING to improve this qb through coaching. we did NOTHING to protect this qb from injury or damage. we did NOTHING to supply him with weapons to be successful. we just kept drafting defense and garbage to keep lovie and angie's jobs secure at the expense of a qb who potentially could have been the best in chicago maybe EVER. PREACH. :headbang :headbang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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