Josh McCown

[scs787]

Consider me a 'moron' then. The facts are what they are, McCown has looked better, althoughbeit in a lesser amount of games, than has Cutler in his body of work this year. And not only that but McCown has been able to succesfully produce in a shorter period of time than has Cutler.

 

That aside, I really don't want for Cutler to leave Chicago. Like you, I agree that the Bears have not had a high caliber QB like this since maybe Jimmy Mac. But if he continues this "Jekyll and Hyde" thing that he's notorious for, is it really to the betterment of the team? IF he plays this Sunday, my hope (and it is genuine) is that he plays near spectacular and continues that type of play to the end of the year. I for one love the idea of having two consistent QB's being able to play this system and put the team in the category of 'great offenses" (as odd as it may sound). It makes things a lot less complicated as the off season approaches.

 

And Jason for what its worth, I liked the story. It was a little sappy for your style, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

 

And Cracker, you're right. You are crotchety.

 

The thing is Jay has also put up games comparable, or better than McCown this year and against better teams.

 

Jay...

 

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT QBR RAT

vs NO24 33 358 72.7 10.85 58 2 0 62.3 128.1 (#4 pass defense)

vs NY24 36 262 66.7 7.28 30 2 0 88.9 106.5 (#12)

 

Josh...

 

vs GB 22 41 272 53.7 6.63 33 2 0 77.5 90.7 (#18 and they were missing their 2 best pass rushers (Matthews/Perry) and another pretty good one in Brad Jones.)

 

(Washington is 27th ranked against the pass)

 

 

Jay has had a passer rating higher than 90 all but one game...Something only he and Peyton Manning can say.

 

I would have liked to have seen what Josh would have done against Detroit when there's sure to be more pressure up the middle.

 

The sample size is just wayyy to small to call McCown > Cutler.

[CrackerDog]

The sample size is just wayyy to small to call McCown > Cutler.

 

You and I don't often agree but we clearly do in this case. I love what I've seen from McCown and I'd definitely get the wheels rolling on signing him up for a 3 year deal as a backup if he's only got a one year contract right now. Not sure what his deal is.

[CrackerDog]

As for your final comment, maybe you should change your screen name to Jonathan Martin.

 

You prove yourself more and more ignorant with every post. So Martin is at fault there? And by your comparison I'm soft, eh? You're an asshole. I hope no female in your family is ever sexually harassed or worse or they'll probably get told by you that it's their fault. Everything I've heard about the Martin situation suggests the guy was mistreated and the Dolphins are going to get a huge black eye from this. But according to you, he isn't tough enough. I'd like you to say that to his face. It's great you can hide behind your keyboard and throw around bullshit like this. If he was ever standing next to you, you'd cower like a pussy.

[BearFan2000]

I'm not sure that I was advocating for a "ditching of the starter" necessarily, just that we need to realize that in those "1 1/2 games" that McCown has looked better than has Cutler in the previous 6 1/2. The sample sizes are what they are. As I did with South side, I extrapolated the numbers (some say skewed) to show that Cutler wasn't as effective as a simple #7 rating (or whatever it boiled down to). You can offer up excuses for what type of defenses that McCown faced versus what Cutler faced but I think again you need to consider the defenses that Cutler did face. Of the 7 teams, how many were top tier defenses? Cinncinnati? Detroit maybe NO? Beyond that not a whole lot different statistically speaking. And one thing to consider, not all that long ago GB made it through much of the playoffs (think two years ago) with a much depleted defense. Dom Capers was and is still a very capable coordinator.

 

But speaking more to the "system". I agree most postively. You can practically "plug and play". However, I think the operator needs to be heavily considered when making that choice. So far, and a few here have seen it to, McCown seems to be the better fit than does Cutler.

 

 

 

 

These are very valid points. You are right, if Jay comes back and plays lights out the rest of the season and knowing what we know about McCown, then yes only having to worry about signing both of them to long term deals and drafting a #3 is a good problem to have.

 

However and conversely speaking, if Jay stinks it up, then letting him walk and keeping McCown for 'caretaker' status and spending the money saved from Jay to beef up the defense isn't all that bad a problem either.

 

I wasn't directing my comments at any poster in particular. I it just a general assessment trying to give both sides. I mentioned sample sizes and defenses faced to state the facts of McCown's 2 1/2 game stint. It wasn't to make excuses for Cutler. I also made it a point that while we shouldn't over-react to McCown's play recently but that we also shouldn't discount it. We have to admit that it's possible that the offense the offense has been improving to a point where you put either Jay or Josh in there and good things will happen. We can't discount that Jay and the offense in general has been up and down. Not all of that has been on Jay, he does tend to be a lightning rod of sorts much of which is of his own doing, he's a hard worker, and will give you all he's got, but he has that persona of being a jerk in the public eye.

 

I'm unbiased in whether I hope jay plays lights out and gets that big extension, it means we make a serious playoff push. I never hope for a player to suck for another to get put in his place. Never like that mentality. This week Jay is the starter and so I want him and the team to do well and take first place in the division by beating the Lions. That said if Jay underperforms, and leads to losing his starting job to Josh, that means the Bears won't resign Jay, and will save a lot of money, by extending Josh, drafting a QB, and maybe bringing in a vet. I'll be ok with either outcome. The main thing in my mind is what's best for the team and winning games. I want whoever is under center to excel. If that means next year our QB is Cutler under a shiny new contract and McCown as a solid backup, with a rookie developing in the wings. I'd be thrilled. If we go into next year with McCown, rookie, and possibly a vet I'd have no problem with that either. The added bonus there would be the ability to use the money that would have been spent on Jay, to be spent improving the D.

 

As it stands with Cutler starting against the Lions Jay will have the chance to make his case that he should be our QB going forward. There is a measuring stick to compare Jay and the offense going forward. No doubt all eyes will be on the offense and I have a feeling there will be many that will be looking for reason to say "See Josh should be the QB", or "see Jay isn't the right guy", etc. There are people in the media and the fanbase itself that have made up their minds that they hate Jay and regardless of what he does will never change that. There are people who will defend Jay no matter what he does. I consider myself neither of those, I want the best guy out there and I want the guy out there to excel which means our offense will excel and put points on the board. No doubt this will be interesting going down the stretch to see how this plays out and what the coming offseason holds.

[Mongo3451]

I wasn't directing my comments at any poster in particular. I it just a general assessment trying to give both sides. I mentioned sample sizes and defenses faced to state the facts of McCown's 2 1/2 game stint. It wasn't to make excuses for Cutler. I also made it a point that while we shouldn't over-react to McCown's play recently but that we also shouldn't discount it. We have to admit that it's possible that the offense the offense has been improving to a point where you put either Jay or Josh in there and good things will happen. We can't discount that Jay and the offense in general has been up and down. Not all of that has been on Jay, he does tend to be a lightning rod of sorts much of which is of his own doing, he's a hard worker, and will give you all he's got, but he has that persona of being a jerk in the public eye.

 

I'm unbiased in whether I hope jay plays lights out and gets that big extension, it means we make a serious playoff push. I never hope for a player to suck for another to get put in his place. Never like that mentality. This week Jay is the starter and so I want him and the team to do well and take first place in the division by beating the Lions. That said if Jay underperforms, and leads to losing his starting job to Josh, that means the Bears won't resign Jay, and will save a lot of money, by extending Josh, drafting a QB, and maybe bringing in a vet. I'll be ok with either outcome. The main thing in my mind is what's best for the team and winning games. I want whoever is under center to excel. If that means next year our QB is Cutler under a shiny new contract and McCown as a solid backup, with a rookie developing in the wings. I'd be thrilled. If we go into next year with McCown, rookie, and possibly a vet I'd have no problem with that either. The added bonus there would be the ability to use the money that would have been spent on Jay, to be spent improving the D.

 

As it stands with Cutler starting against the Lions Jay will have the chance to make his case that he should be our QB going forward. There is a measuring stick to compare Jay and the offense going forward. No doubt all eyes will be on the offense and I have a feeling there will be many that will be looking for reason to say "See Josh should be the QB", or "see Jay isn't the right guy", etc. There are people in the media and the fanbase itself that have made up their minds that they hate Jay and regardless of what he does will never change that. There are people who will defend Jay no matter what he does. I consider myself neither of those, I want the best guy out there and I want the guy out there to excel which means our offense will excel and put points on the board. No doubt this will be interesting going down the stretch to see how this plays out and what the coming offseason holds.

Yup!

[jason]

You prove yourself more and more ignorant with every post. So Martin is at fault there? And by your comparison I'm soft, eh? You're an asshole. I hope no female in your family is ever sexually harassed or worse or they'll probably get told by you that it's their fault. Everything I've heard about the Martin situation suggests the guy was mistreated and the Dolphins are going to get a huge black eye from this. But according to you, he isn't tough enough. I'd like you to say that to his face. It's great you can hide behind your keyboard and throw around bullshit like this. If he was ever standing next to you, you'd cower like a pussy.

 

Without getting into this too deeply, if nearly everyone on the Miami team appears to be supporting Incognito, and the evidence appears that Martin actively participated in the crass exchanges, maybe my point was that Martin was overly sensitive with his sudden comment, much like you. And much like your stupid dog analogy, your comparison in this situation is equally stupid. Comparing a football locker-room environment to a female member of someone's family is apples and pork-chops. Completely different in numerous ways. I'm guessing you've never been in a football locker-room, and if you have, you probably didn't fit in very well.

 

As for your final comment, wrong yet again. I'd fit right in, ribbing both of them as they would inevitably rib me. It's what happens in the locker-room.

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Funny how history repeats itself and we find ourselves talking about McCown in the positive light....again

[CrackerDog]

Without getting into this too deeply...

 

You're an idiot.

[jason]

I love how in this thread Cracker has called me multiple names and told me to F myself, yet it hasn't upset me and no admin has said a word. It completely proves my point about the ribbing. I'd take the ribbing in stride while Cracker would most likely cry...while making a horribly inappropriate and probably inept analogy about the entire ordeal.

[bowlingtwig]

I love how in this thread Cracker has called me multiple names and told me to F myself, yet it hasn't upset me and no admin has said a word. It completely proves my point about the ribbing. I'd take the ribbing in stride while Cracker would most likely cry...while making a horribly inappropriate and probably inept analogy about the entire ordeal.

I'm sorry but cracker calls everyone an idiot all the time. If he didn't we would need to drug test him

[CrackerDog]

I'm sorry but cracker calls everyone an idiot all the time. If he didn't we would need to drug test him

 

Ha! Untrue, I only call you an idiot when you're being an idiot. PS. The new family photo you have up is cool.

 

As to the "boys being boys" part of the story, I get it. I'm inappropriate with my buddies all the time. But when this first came up, the story out in public was very different than what's come out since. So Jason's revisionist take on what he meant by his first reference to Martin is horseshit, much like everything else he says. So, like I said, GFY.

 

[jason]

Ha! Untrue, I only call you an idiot when you're being an idiot. PS. The new family photo you have up is cool.

 

As to the "boys being boys" part of the story, I get it. I'm inappropriate with my buddies all the time. But when this first came up, the story out in public was very different than what's come out since. So Jason's revisionist take on what he meant by his first reference to Martin is horseshit, much like everything else he says. So, like I said, GFY.

 

Look at the timestamps and promptly return the GFY. When I posted there were already many people coming out on Incognito's side. Of course now, the tides are swirling with people on both sides.

[Daventry]

From an viewers standpoint, McCown to me has made a lot less bonehead throws than Cutler and to be honest, if we were in the Super Bowl tomorrow I would take McCown over Cutler, injury or not…..

[bowlingtwig]

From an viewers standpoint, McCown to me has made a lot less bonehead throws than Cutler and to be honest, if we were in the Super Bowl tomorrow I would take McCown over Cutler, injury or not…..

How are you so convinced on mccown. I like him don't get me wrong but dudes been in league for 12 yrs and hasnt done anything. More career picks than TDs. Was actually out of the league and coaching HS when we called him few years ago and now all of sudden he's better than cutlrr who has st least proven he's a starter in this league. How many players bounce around for 12 yrs and then out of the blue is great. And no I can'tiimagine that trestman is some magician who can turn crap into gold over night. I'm really have this feeling that mccowns bubble is going to burst soon. I hope I'm wrong though

[Daventry]

I go by results, and what I have seen from McCown is results in this system. And what I have seen from Cutler, over many games, is continued bad decisions and interceptions that have arguably led to losses. I believe in wins and losses…..so although I know that my position is quite controversial, and open to criticism, I would take McCown. Not making mistakes is what is needed at this point on this team.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Look at the timestamps and promptly return the GFY. When I posted there were already many people coming out on Incognito's side. Of course now, the tides are swirling with people on both sides.

 

For what its worth (and GFY's aside), Incognito is an ignoramus.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I go by results, and what I have seen from McCown is results in this system. And what I have seen from Cutler, over many games, is continued bad decisions and interceptions that have arguably led to losses. I believe in wins and losses…..so although I know that my position is quite controversial, and open to criticism, I would take McCown. Not making mistakes is what is needed at this point on this team.

 

Daventry my old buddy ol pal. I'd have to say I agree. If we simply look at this year, the comparison sample (between Cutler and McCown) is different. Where Cutler has a tendency (some say knack) for a turnover, McCown has not committed that error - yet. Granted McCown hasn't got a lot of "starting quality" stats over the years, the arguement could be made that he hasn't been in the right system. Same arguement could be made for Cutler with Chicago for that matter, at least until this year. And I won't say he (Cutler) hasn't improved but to again look at the sample for this year where Jay has now had at least three bad games (to include the last Detroit game - not his fault) McCown has yet to falter.

 

I side with Twig that I hope McCown doesn't falter (although I'm not convinced by your sincerity). But I will also stop short of declaring McCown the permanent starter for the team. As will he.

[bowlingtwig]

It would make for an amazing story. Guy spends 12 yrs in league. Never accomplishing much of anything. Couple nice games back in 2004 with cards. Losses his starting gig then struggles to just keep a job. Ended up spending a yr in the UFL. Then comes back briefly before bring out of football. Then gets a call from us when he was coaching a HS team and now this CFL coach comes in and mccown plays best football of his life. I really hope it never ends but everything in his past tells me what we are witnessing is a little hocus pocus. Nobody thought he would play this well. And please don't get me started on the "he just wins". That's a joke. I'm not hating on mccown as I really do like him. I honestly hope this can continue until jay gets back. And its not like Jay has sucked this yr. If jay was having a really bad yr and team was losing with him then I would entertain the idea of benching him

[scs787]

2 things. Josh has still not seen the type of pressure Jay has seen in some of his games this year. That first game against the Lions where he had the 3 picks he was absolutely terrorized the whole game. That was really his only real bad game....This Sunday Josh will finally face a really good pass rush, so it'll be interesting to see how he does. I know I said this last week but with the field conditions the way they were I think it was tough to get at the QB (Josh was hit just 3 times, Flacco just twice).

 

Another thing is, can McCown win the shootouts against good defenses? That too has yet to be seen. The Kyle Orton/Alex Smith type "Game managers" work when you have a top flight defense but when your defense struggles, and you're playing a team like the Saints, those game managers won't survive in a shootout. Is Josh more than that? I'm not so sure about that.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

It would make for an amazing story.

 

There are stories not all that dissimilar; Warren Moon, Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon (of which McCown has been compared) to name a couple. So the probability isn't all that far fetched.

 

 

And please don't get me started on the "he just wins". That's a joke.

 

But he is "just winning". Posted great numbers against Wash. Did well against GB...at Lambeau. Nearly pulled out a win against Detroit (with only two mins to try) and won against Balt. Granted he's not doing this all on his own, he has Jeffery, Forte, Marshall and Bennett to help but the dude is pretty solid...so far.

 

If you weren't hating on McCown I'd think you would hope him to look horrible, just to prove your point. But if he doesn't then the team wins. Kind of a catch-22 if you ask me.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 things. Josh has still not seen the type of pressure Jay has seen in some of his games this year.

 

Please stop this comparison. Its pointless. When you have teams like Carolina (who sucked big time early this year) suddenly finding themselves in playoff contention (in a normally strong NFC South) then every game counts differntly than the last and the rest. SF who was supposed to be dominating and on the verge of returning to the Super Bowl finds themselves one loss away from being out of it. Baltimore is nearly out of it, it not already. Cleveland (did I really say Cleveland?) is in contention for a spot. The NYG (yes the same once 0-6 Giants) are suddenly viable...if only a little. And Detroit is leading our division. The defense that Jay Cutler saw one week could very well be a different defense the weekend following. Factor in injuries etc.

 

That first game against the Lions where he had the 3 picks he was absolutely terrorized the whole game. That was really his only real bad game....T

He had three turnovers against the Vikings too. One fumble for a direct score.

 

This Sunday Josh will finally face a really good pass rush, so it'll be interesting to see how he does.

Remember, McCown played against the same Detroit defense (not on the same day as you describe) and nearly won the game..with only two mins to try.

 

Another thing is, can McCown win the shootouts against good defenses? That too has yet to be seen.

You are absolutely right (bolded). Another thing that remains to be seen is how will McCown perform for the rest of the time he's in? Will he continue to win or will he lose?

 

The Kyle Orton/Alex Smith type "Game managers" work when you have a top flight defense but when your defense struggles, and you're playing a team like the Saints, those game managers won't survive in a shootout. Is Josh more than that? I'm not so sure about that.

 

So by your reasoning Cutler is not a game manager, but rather a franchise QB yet lost against the Saints. So the game managers AND franchisers can both lose...if the defense isn't up to par?

[bowlingtwig]

There are stories not all that dissimilar; Warren Moon, Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon (of which McCown has been compared) to name a couple. So the probability isn't all that far fetched.

 

 

 

 

But he is "just winning". Posted great numbers against Wash. Did well against GB...at Lambeau. Nearly pulled out a win against Detroit (with only two mins to try) and won against Balt. Granted he's not doing this all on his own, he has Jeffery, Forte, Marshall and Bennett to help but the dude is pretty solid...so far.

 

If you weren't hating on McCown I'd think you would hope him to look horrible, just to prove your point. But if he doesn't then the team wins. Kind of a catch-22 if you ask me.

Gannon is only 1 similar. Spent long time in league before his breakout yr at age 33. Moon and warner were at least stars before they came into league.

 

And to think I'm secretly wanting mccown to fail just to prove my point is completely preposterous. I hope to god I'm wrong. I have never and will never cheer against our beloved. This kinda hurts coming from someone who has known me on here dating back to the old board. I'd expectthis from a newbie but not ffrom you. Even if mccown has a bad game you won't find me gloating about it. I simply am stating I think jay is the better qb for this team. Maybe we should get rid of Jay and sign mccown and tebow. Since you know all they do is win. Wow just never expected this from you. Maybe nxt time I should never give my opinions as it obviously means I'm a hater if I don't think someone is the best

[bowlingtwig]

2 things. Josh has still not seen the type of pressure Jay has seen in some of his games this year. That first game against the Lions where he had the 3 picks he was absolutely terrorized the whole game. That was really his only real bad game....This Sunday Josh will finally face a really good pass rush, so it'll be interesting to see how he does. I know I said this last week but with the field conditions the way they were I think it was tough to get at the QB (Josh was hit just 3 times, Flacco just twice).

 

Another thing is, can McCown win the shootouts against good defenses? That too has yet to be seen. The Kyle Orton/Alex Smith type "Game managers" work when you have a top flight defense but when your defense struggles, and you're playing a team like the Saints, those game managers won't survive in a shootout. Is Josh more than that? I'm not so sure about that.

I need drug tested. We actually completely agree on something. Lol

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Gannon is only 1 similar. Spent long time in league before his breakout yr at age 33. Moon and warner were at least stars before they came into league.

 

And to think I'm secretly wanting mccown to fail just to prove my point is completely preposterous. I hope to god I'm wrong. I have never and will never cheer against our beloved. This kinda hurts coming from someone who has known me on here dating back to the old board. I'd expectthis from a newbie but not ffrom you. Even if mccown has a bad game you won't find me gloating about it. I simply am stating I think jay is the better qb for this team. Maybe we should get rid of Jay and sign mccown and tebow. Since you know all they do is win. Wow just never expected this from you. Maybe nxt time I should never give my opinions as it obviously means I'm a hater if I don't think someone is the best

 

"Hocus pocus" in the context you used it and saying that he just wins is a "joke" makes one wonder what your "hope" is. If for nothing else youre not a believer. McCown has done nothing but prove himself. As has Cutler. So far between the two, THIS YEAR, McCown has the better record et winning percentage.

 

I didn't doubt your allegiance to the team, don't cram words. Just said what I said above. And I make no qualm "old associate" or not, I'll debate you just the same.

['TD']

If jay was having a really bad yr and team was losing with him then I would entertain the idea of benching him

 

Being that he is 4 and 4, and made big contributions to 3 of the 4 losses I wouldn't say it's a good year. Statistically he has been good as a hole. However, his play has contributed to 3 of 4 losses and Cutler is 4 and 4 on the season. I'm not sure his superior arm is making the difference.

 

Minnesota he had 3 turn overs. The first Detroit game he had 4 turnovers. He went 3 for 8 in the first half before getting hurt with an int returned for a TD against Washington. The second Detroit game he was injured, but had a bad game also.