Lucky Luciano Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I wasn't all that impressed with his performance today. Yes, yardage wise was nice, but I thought a lot of stuff was left on the field and I also thought he made some really poor decisions at times. Still, for a backup, he's played superb. i agree. also it could be he was still not with it from some of the hard hits he took last week. it seemed he was off a bit mentally. maybe a low grade concussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I actually thought McCown played maybe a little worse than last week, but having said that, his QB rating was 114, which was only the third best QB rating of this year for him...and he hasn't had a QB rating of less than 91 yet this year. I think a good way to sum up McCown's success is just that he completely buys into Trestman's system. I don't think he's worth as much to other teams as he is to us because of how well suited he is to this offense, so Cutler's got that going for him. One way or the other, it's good for us. Either we've got a capable guy should Cutler walk, or Cutler's price is dropping by the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 McCown was playing it safe and it showed, we were brutal on 3rd Downs. Hard to win or move the ball consistently when you are 2-11 on 3rd Downs. I know you can't, but take away the 2 long passes to Jeffery and McCown only has 229 yards on 34 attempts, for under 6 yards an attempt (which is essentially dink and dunk). We didn't score a single pt for the last 33 minutes of the game. I still am high on McCown and he can be a starter in the right system (with a team with a dominate Defense and run game), but is better suited as a backup. We really need Cutler back vs Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 OK looks like we agree on this issue. So question is if you were gm what would you do. Pay jay for 1 yr franchise tag or go long term deal. Of course either way I want josh back as the back up What I expect the Bears to do is approach Jay this off season and say here's what we think your market value is for a 5 year contract which'll let you end your career a Bear. And they'll negotiate from there and come to some sort of agreement with a big bonus check. But both sides will realize throughout the negotiations that: 1.) Jay's value was somewhat hurt by his injuries this year. 2.) That the Bears will have to write a huge check to tag him and only get one season if they do. These two factors will offset each other and they'll end up pretty much with a market deal. They'll then sign McCown up for a 2 or 3 year deal unless he finds greener pastures, which I don't expect. Jay's numbers go up if he returns this weekend and performs at a high level for the remainder of the season. If Jay comes back and isn't ready or underwhelms, all bets are off. The Bears could very well then think about going with McCown and drafting a rookie if they get a high enough pick to nab one of the prospects coming out this season. That would leave lots of $$$ for signing free agents and bringing the D back to life, which is the upside to not breaking the bank on Jay. Several others here including Jason have rightly pointed out this potential windfall. If the Bears decide this is their best option, I won't be happy but I won't cry either as I do have a lot of faith in Trestman's ability to groom the QB of the future. Jay being a "gunslinger" style QB might benefit elsewhere in an offense more suited to his mindset. It'll be an interesting off season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Well thought out CDog... What I expect the Bears to do is approach Jay this off season and say here's what we think your market value is for a 5 year contract which'll let you end your career a Bear. And they'll negotiate from there and come to some sort of agreement with a big bonus check. But both sides will realize throughout the negotiations that: 1.) Jay's value was somewhat hurt by his injuries this year. 2.) That the Bears will have to write a huge check to tag him and only get one season if they do. These two factors will offset each other and they'll end up pretty much with a market deal. They'll then sign McCown up for a 2 or 3 year deal unless he finds greener pastures, which I don't expect. Jay's numbers go up if he returns this weekend and performs at a high level for the remainder of the season. If Jay comes back and isn't ready or underwhelms, all bets are off. The Bears could very well then think about going with McCown and drafting a rookie if they get a high enough pick to nab one of the prospects coming out this season. That would leave lots of $$$ for signing free agents and bringing the D back to life, which is the upside to not breaking the bank on Jay. Several others here including Jason have rightly pointed out this potential windfall. If the Bears decide this is their best option, I won't be happy but I won't cry either as I do have a lot of faith in Trestman's ability to groom the QB of the future. Jay being a "gunslinger" style QB might benefit elsewhere in an offense more suited to his mindset. It'll be an interesting off season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 What I expect the Bears to do is approach Jay this off season and say here's what we think your market value is for a 5 year contract which'll let you end your career a Bear. And they'll negotiate from there and come to some sort of agreement with a big bonus check. But both sides will realize throughout the negotiations that: 1.) Jay's value was somewhat hurt by his injuries this year. 2.) That the Bears will have to write a huge check to tag him and only get one season if they do. These two factors will offset each other and they'll end up pretty much with a market deal. They'll then sign McCown up for a 2 or 3 year deal unless he finds greener pastures, which I don't expect. Jay's numbers go up if he returns this weekend and performs at a high level for the remainder of the season. If Jay comes back and isn't ready or underwhelms, all bets are off. The Bears could very well then think about going with McCown and drafting a rookie if they get a high enough pick to nab one of the prospects coming out this season. That would leave lots of $$$ for signing free agents and bringing the D back to life, which is the upside to not breaking the bank on Jay. Several others here including Jason have rightly pointed out this potential windfall. If the Bears decide this is their best option, I won't be happy but I won't cry either as I do have a lot of faith in Trestman's ability to groom the QB of the future. Jay being a "gunslinger" style QB might benefit elsewhere in an offense more suited to his mindset. It'll be an interesting off season... Damn not very often I can sling praise your way. But that was well thought out. I would love to see what a healthy jay could do to a Dallas D that's rated worse than ours just not sure if he makes it back this game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Damn not very often I can sling praise your way. But that was well thought out. I would love to see what a healthy jay could do to a Dallas D that's rated worse than ours just not sure if he makes it back this game You and I actually get along pretty well when you're not being dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 You and I actually get along pretty well when you're not being dumb. Boy can that statement go both ways lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daventry Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 What I expect the Bears to do is approach Jay this off season and say here's what we think your market value is for a 5 year contract which'll let you end your career a Bear. And they'll negotiate from there and come to some sort of agreement with a big bonus check. But both sides will realize throughout the negotiations that: 1.) Jay's value was somewhat hurt by his injuries this year. 2.) That the Bears will have to write a huge check to tag him and only get one season if they do. These two factors will offset each other and they'll end up pretty much with a market deal. They'll then sign McCown up for a 2 or 3 year deal unless he finds greener pastures, which I don't expect. Jay's numbers go up if he returns this weekend and performs at a high level for the remainder of the season. If Jay comes back and isn't ready or underwhelms, all bets are off. The Bears could very well then think about going with McCown and drafting a rookie if they get a high enough pick to nab one of the prospects coming out this season. That would leave lots of $$$ for signing free agents and bringing the D back to life, which is the upside to not breaking the bank on Jay. Several others here including Jason have rightly pointed out this potential windfall. If the Bears decide this is their best option, I won't be happy but I won't cry either as I do have a lot of faith in Trestman's ability to groom the QB of the future. Jay being a "gunslinger" style QB might benefit elsewhere in an offense more suited to his mindset. It'll be an interesting off season... I would bet this is close to what Trest and Emery are thinking…but would not be that surprised if they had already decided to let Jay move on unless they get a good deal on him. As much as I like Jay's talent, I would not be sad to see him go at this point, especially when we are going to have to spend big money on the D if we can hope to become play-off calibre. I just don't think Jay's upside is worth the cash the team would have to spend to keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Emery just set aside the use of the franchise tag for Cutler. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...jay-cutler.html Although he clarifies his position based on the need to spread out the cap hit over years, in essence he also gave away that he does not feel Cutler's value is worth that much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted December 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Emery just set aside the use of the franchise tag for Cutler. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...jay-cutler.html Although he clarifies his position based on the need to spread out the cap hit over years, in essence he also gave away that he does not feel Cutler's value is worth that much money. This is a bad omen. I don't like that they are closing doors to possible ways of hashing out a contract. I think Emery would have been better served by saying something like 'all options are on the table (with Cutlers contract) and there are many issue to consider elsewhere (meaning defense)". Showing his hand this early puts both he and the Cutler camp in a corner. I question Emerys arrogance sometimes, as this is not the first time he's done this. Now, I understand why he did it..just don't agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Sorry but I don't see the problem with what emery said. Dude speaks absolute truth and we crush him? He never did say that we wouldn't use the tag. Just said that there's a risk to using the tag and not being able to sign the qb to long term deal. $16.2M is a lot to tie up on a player when all of that counts against the cap. I suspect that Emery will use the tag if he's confident the 2 can work out long term deal and I'm starting to think that they can. Despite media jay actually likes it here and dudes got real weapons on offense with a real oline for 1st time since his Denver days. Jay is no dummy. I'm thinking he takes a little hometown discount to stay put to help emery bring in more defensive play makers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted December 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Sorry but I don't see the problem with what emery said. Dude speaks absolute truth and we crush him? He never did say that we wouldn't use the tag. Just said that there's a risk to using the tag and not being able to sign the qb to long term deal. $16.2M is a lot to tie up on a player when all of that counts against the cap. I suspect that Emery will use the tag if he's confident the 2 can work out long term deal and I'm starting to think that they can. Despite media jay actually likes it here and dudes got real weapons on offense with a real oline for 1st time since his Denver days. Jay is no dummy. I'm thinking he takes a little hometown discount to stay put to help emery bring in more defensive play makers Was just going to add an 'edit' when I saw your reply, so instead I'll just add it here. After seeing this article I saw it again in Bears.com and found that the way it was presented above was out of context. You are correct that what it appears to be is that he was simply outlining the negative side of franchising a player, especially QB, when there is such a high need to address other issues. Do you pay your 'franchise QB' for one year (at a high premium), hope that he takes a "hometown discount" for a multi-year deal or go with taking the money and running on stockpiling the D? Fair to say that I don't envy Emery to have to get to work once the season is over in the manner he needs. Now the fact that I allegedly "crush(ed)" him seems a little harsh but if my response was what you consider harsh, then "crush" it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Sorry but I don't see the problem with what emery said. Dude speaks absolute truth and we crush him? He never did say that we wouldn't use the tag. Just said that there's a risk to using the tag and not being able to sign the qb to long term deal. $16.2M is a lot to tie up on a player when all of that counts against the cap. I suspect that Emery will use the tag if he's confident the 2 can work out long term deal and I'm starting to think that they can. Despite media jay actually likes it here and dudes got real weapons on offense with a real oline for 1st time since his Denver days. Jay is no dummy. I'm thinking he takes a little hometown discount to stay put to help emery bring in more defensive play makers Where exactly did I "crush" Emery? Emery in the past has stated he does not want any negotiations discussed in public. Not that he was discussing negotiations directly but I believe those statements indicate in his heart he does not feel Cutler is worth the $16mil cap hit. Nor do I. I still want to keep Cutler for a reasonable top 15 QB deal, maybe somewhere around top 10 money, because I believe we can win a Superbowl with him. I actually think Emery is being a bit smart here by saying we don't want to tag you because, as Grizz just stated, we have a lot of good things going on offense right now. Jay knows that, and everyone else in the league knows that now too. We have a young WR in Marquess Wilson that was a potential 1-2nd Rd pick playing sparingly now but if he develops as expected next season he could make this one very dangerous trio of WRs...plus Matt Forte. There's a nice 2-3 year outlook on our offense right now. So Emery states we want Jay to be a part of this long term not just for one year. Does Jay want to be a part of this? For his part I think Cutler was insinuating a similar sentiment when he said he didn't mind if he was given the franchise tag for a year. None of this truly tells us where either party thinks the value is but recent statements make me think they might not be too far apart. Time will tell but one things is certain: Cutler's next contract is the biggest part of the puzzle going forward and it would be great if they could agree to terms early in the offseason so Emery can get cracking on fixing this defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Emery just set aside the use of the franchise tag for Cutler. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...jay-cutler.html Although he clarifies his position based on the need to spread out the cap hit over years, in essence he also gave away that he does not feel Cutler's value is worth that much money. I think the messaging could also have more to do with them believing in him and wanting to sign him long term at the right value or thats how I'd message it. I know Cutler has said he's open to it but overall players don't like the franchise cause it prevents them from getting the big lifetime guarantee contract with a bigtime signing bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 I get that same vibe. I think the messaging could also have more to do with them believing in him and wanting to sign him long term at the right value or thats how I'd message it. I know Cutler has said he's open to it but overall players don't like the franchise cause it prevents them from getting the big lifetime guarantee contract with a bigtime signing bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'll ask it again.... Josh McCown = Gannon 2.0? Nice work tonight Joshua!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'll ask it again.... Josh McCown = Gannon 2.0? Nice work tonight Joshua!!! Insane game for J Mac tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'll ask it again.... Josh McCown = Gannon 2.0? Nice work tonight Joshua!!! 86-119, 72.3%, 1,055 yards, 8 TD, 1 INT, 1 Rushing TD in last 3 games. 3 straight 300 yards passing games. Impressive, especially in those conditions, which were brutal. A few balls could've been picked off, but at least he was aggressive, and that pass and catch to Alshon was a thing of beauty. It is hard to doubt his production now, and when comparing him to Cutler, I would say that McCown has outperformed Cutler in this offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 86-119, 72.3%, 1,055 yards, 8 TD, 1 INT, 1 Rushing TD in last 3 games. 3 straight 300 yards passing games. Impressive, especially in those conditions, which were brutal. A few balls could've been picked off, but at least he was aggressive, and that pass and catch to Alshon was a thing of beauty. It is hard to doubt his production now, and when comparing him to Cutler, I would say that McCown has outperformed Cutler in this offense. Well last years bearstalk league chamion has to bow out to you, but after starteing 0-6, going 6-1 to get in the play offs, atleast McCown made it interesting with his 51 points. Good luck, and i dojnt care i am a mccown fan after tonight from now on. I wont back down, i've tried to be resective and unbiased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Well last years bearstalk league chamion has to bow out to you, but after starteing 0-6, going 6-1 to get in the play offs, atleast McCown made it interesting with his 51 points. Good luck, and i dojnt care i am a mccown fan after tonight from now on. I wont back down, i've tried to be resective and unbiased Lol, I played him in the Keeper league and he single-handedly won the game for me this week. He definitely made it interesting and if he broke 400 yards, it would've been much closer in our game. I have been on board the McCown bandwagon since he came into the Washington game, playing with little to no reps and gave us the lead late. If we had even a league average defense right now we would have 9 wins. He has now won in GB, in brutal conditions against BAL, and in freezing and windy conditions tonight (on MNF again). A pretty nice run for a career backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Lol, I played him in the Keeper league and he single-handedly won the game for me this week. He definitely made it interesting and if he broke 400 yards, it would've been much closer in our game. I have been on board the McCown bandwagon since he came into the Washington game, playing with little to no reps and gave us the lead late. If we had even a league average defense right now we would have 9 wins. He has now won in GB, in brutal conditions against BAL, and in freezing and windy conditions tonight (on MNF again). A pretty nice run for a career backup. Same here. I drafed Newton because he played the saints this week and in the chamionshi in my money league. I stole Marshall in a trade, picked mccown, and drafted forte in the second round. I needed forty oints tonight and i got 80 from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The decision between Jay and Josh is going to be one of the most interesting moves I've ever seen in my 15+ years of being a sports nut....I hate being "On the fence", it's something I don't recall ever being, but at this point I'm seriously "on the fence". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The decision between Jay and Josh is going to be one of the most interesting moves I've ever seen in my 15+ years of being a sports nut....I hate being "On the fence", it's something I don't recall ever being, but at this point I'm seriously "on the fence". So we have a QB controversy? Not quite the same as in most years past, is it? We actually have two competent playcallers! Imagine that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 At this point I think it makes more financial sense than ever to go forward with McCown and a highly drafted rookie from this year's deep QB class. The real question is whether the Bears can tender Cutler and get a draft pick from someone. If they try that, and nobody bites, then it's a win-win situation and the Bears have two good QBs. The only downside is the financial aspect of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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