Josh McCown

[madlithuanian]

That is an understatement!

 

No kidding. Til that D improves it won't matter who the qb is. trestman spoke today and sounds like jay needs another week

 

['TD']

Actually, the quarterback discussion was due to the elephant in the room. It all started with the idea that if McCown can produce near, equal, or better results than Cutler, then Cutler's pay could be better spent on improving the defense and retaining players. There's also a possibility of getting extra draft picks to improve the D through a tag and trade of Cutler ala Cassel a few years ago.

[CrackerDog]

Actually, the quarterback discussion was due to the elephant in the room. It all started with the idea that if McCown can produce near, equal, or better results than Cutler, then Cutler's pay could be better spent on improving the defense and retaining players. There's also a possibility of getting extra draft picks to improve the D through a tag and trade of Cutler ala Cassel a few years ago.

 

OK, I see. I still think, despite McCown's solid play, that talk of moving Cutler is foolhardy. I do see the value in having extra cash for revamping the D but wonder how teams like Denver, New England, etc seem to have the money for a great QB and their D?

 

I know, you're now going to say Cutler ain't no Brady. And that's true. I'm just saying, if they can afford both, and we should get Cutler for less than those guys, I don't understand why we wouldn't have the money to stock the Defensive team as well. Heck, if we can cut loose of Pep and his salary, I understnad there's a hit in 2014 for this, but we'll have shotloads of dough for the D after we deal with him.

 

There's going to be a lot of hard decisions this off season. No question. Our team is basically a bunch of guys on one year contracts! But McCown isn't my guy long term. No way.

[bowlingtwig]

OK, I see. I still think, despite McCown's solid play, that talk of moving Cutler is foolhardy. I do see the value in having extra cash for revamping the D but wonder how teams like Denver, New England, etc seem to have the money for a great QB and their D?

 

I know, you're now going to say Cutler ain't no Brady. And that's true. I'm just saying, if they can afford both, and we should get Cutler for less than those guys, I don't understand why we wouldn't have the money to stock the Defensive team as well. Heck, if we can cut loose of Pep and his salary, I understnad there's a hit in 2014 for this, but we'll have shotloads of dough for the D after we deal with him.

 

There's going to be a lot of hard decisions this off season. No question. Our team is basically a bunch of guys on one year contracts! But McCown isn't my guy long term. No way.

I believe cutting pepp saves around $9M

[CrackerDog]

I believe cutting pepp saves around $9M

 

I'd like a source on that if you can find one. I'm talking about dead money, I think you're talking about the difference between what we'd pay him and the amount of the cap hit. Two different things but if we really free up $9 million despite the cap hit for cutting him, I'm happy with that result. Unless he's been playing on one leg or something and the coaches believe he's still got something in the tank, he's gone after this season.

['TD']

OK, I see. I still think, despite McCown's solid play, that talk of moving Cutler is foolhardy. I do see the value in having extra cash for revamping the D but wonder how teams like Denver, New England, etc seem to have the money for a great QB and their D?

 

I know, you're now going to say Cutler ain't no Brady. And that's true. I'm just saying, if they can afford both, and we should get Cutler for less than those guys, I don't understand why we wouldn't have the money to stock the Defensive team as well. Heck, if we can cut loose of Pep and his salary, I understnad there's a hit in 2014 for this, but we'll have shotloads of dough for the D after we deal with him.

 

There's going to be a lot of hard decisions this off season. No question. Our team is basically a bunch of guys on one year contracts! But McCown isn't my guy long term. No way.

 

The current Bears roster is built due to poor management over the last 10 years or so. Tillman and Briggs were the best players drafted during Angelo's reign and they are near the twilight of their careers. The Patriots have had solid management for years, and they have a constant supply of players being infused to their offenses and defenses. The Broncos was pretty well built in the draft, but had to give decent sized contracts to Manning and Welker.

 

The Patriots are in the top 10 in or around the top ten on offense and defense due to good management. The Broncos, while they do have play makers, are showing what happens to a D you have to invest so much into a QB. Their defense allows 26 points a game and the 26th most yards this season.

 

The Bears are in a bad situation this off season due to bad management. The Bears struggles to find impact players through the draft led to the addition of larger contract players like Bushrod, Marshall, and Peppers. Not only did management not find stars, but they didn't leave a solid infrastructure. There is a need either due to age, depth, or lack of talent at every position on defense.

 

Things can be done like cutting Peppers, but the 10 million in savings will also leave 9 million in dead cap space. Teams like the Broncos and Patriots don't have that. If there is 10 to 15 million saved by losing Cutler, that may add 2 new starting D-linemen that can fill holes so that teams can't run all over the Bears. It may bring in Tillman or Jennings replacement and a competent Safety. There is so many holes on the team and only so many draft picks to fill the holes.

['TD']

I'd like a source on that if you can find one. I'm talking about dead money, I think you're talking about the difference between what we'd pay him and the amount of the cap hit. Two different things but if we really free up $9 million despite the cap hit for cutting him, I'm happy with that result. Unless he's been playing on one leg or something and the coaches believe he's still got something in the tank, he's gone after this season.

http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Bears&Year=2014

 

This is the first site I always see on google when I search. They have him at a 9.8 mill savings, but I think the number is different after the restructuring this year.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

The current Bears roster is built due to poor management over the last 10 years or so. Tillman and Briggs were the best players drafted during Angelo's reign and they are near the twilight of their careers. The Patriots have had solid management for years, and they have a constant supply of players being infused to their offenses and defenses. The Broncos was pretty well built in the draft, but had to give decent sized contracts to Manning and Welker.

 

The Patriots are in the top 10 in or around the top ten on offense and defense due to good management. The Broncos, while they do have play makers, are showing what happens to a D you have to invest so much into a QB. Their defense allows 26 points a game and the 26th most yards this season.

 

 

The same could be said about Green Bay. Look how one dimensional they became when Rodgers is hurt. And...if Lacy were hurt how much a drop off their is in their running game.

 

Their D, although run by one of the better Defensive minds in the NFL, is injury riddled much like the Bears'.

 

The only reason they're still in the running is due to Chicago and Detroit's own inepetitude this year.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Oopss....DP

[selection7]

It's probably already too late to have both McCown and Cutler next year. If we give Cutler a big contract, McCown won't accept being guaranteed to never be a starter for the rest of his career, because he doesn't have to. With a QB rating of 101 in five games, he's consistently played great...and being a tall, strong-armed, athletic guy, he's even got the measurables. Meanwhile, Cutler has never posted a QB rating for the year in the 90's in his whole career (including this year). Of course, Cutler's significantly younger and more experienced. But what happens if this season ends without any solid evidence that Cutler should be considered an elite QB? And then what if Cutler get's it in his mind that he won't accept anything less than the major bank he probably planned on getting before this season, regardless of what his bargaining position actually is?

 

In short, everything depends on Cutler. When Cutler plays again, how will he play? If he doesn't play his best ball of his career, will he accept reality and be happy with a contract befitting a talented, veteran QB? or will it be 14 million/yr or bust? I have no idea on any of those counts. But effectively, Cutler will decide his fate, not Emery.

['TD']

In short, everything depends on Cutler. When Cutler plays again, how will he play? If he doesn't play his best ball of his career, will he accept reality and be happy with a contract befitting a talented, veteran QB? or will it be 14 million/yr or bust? I have no idea on any of those counts. But effectively, Cutler will decide his fate, not Emery.

I imagine he will be trying for 18-20 million a years with over 50 million guaranteed. He may settle for 14-16 million a year after what happened this year.

[Connorbear]

It's probably already too late to have both McCown and Cutler next year. If we give Cutler a big contract, McCown won't accept being guaranteed to never be a starter for the rest of his career, because he doesn't have to. With a QB rating of 101 in five games, he's consistently played great...and being a tall, strong-armed, athletic guy, he's even got the measurables. Meanwhile, Cutler has never posted a QB rating for the year in the 90's in his whole career (including this year). Of course, Cutler's significantly younger and more experienced. But what happens if this season ends without any solid evidence that Cutler should be considered an elite QB? And then what if Cutler get's it in his mind that he won't accept anything less than the major bank he probably planned on getting before this season, regardless of what his bargaining position actually is?

 

In short, everything depends on Cutler. When Cutler plays again, how will he play? If he doesn't play his best ball of his career, will he accept reality and be happy with a contract befitting a talented, veteran QB? or will it be 14 million/yr or bust? I have no idea on any of those counts. But effectively, Cutler will decide his fate, not Emery.

McCown was coaching high school football before the Bears signed him. He knows his role is as a backup in the NFL. He is 35. If the Bears make a decent backup offer to him, he will be back.

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

The current Bears roster is built due to poor management over the last 10 years or so. Tillman and Briggs were the best players drafted during Angelo's reign and they are near the twilight of their careers. The Patriots have had solid management for years, and they have a constant supply of players being infused to their offenses and defenses. The Broncos was pretty well built in the draft, but had to give decent sized contracts to Manning and Welker.

 

The Patriots are in the top 10 in or around the top ten on offense and defense due to good management. The Broncos, while they do have play makers, are showing what happens to a D you have to invest so much into a QB. Their defense allows 26 points a game and the 26th most yards this season.

 

The Bears are in a bad situation this off season due to bad management. The Bears struggles to find impact players through the draft led to the addition of larger contract players like Bushrod, Marshall, and Peppers. Not only did management not find stars, but they didn't leave a solid infrastructure. There is a need either due to age, depth, or lack of talent at every position on defense.

 

Things can be done like cutting Peppers, but the 10 million in savings will also leave 9 million in dead cap space. Teams like the Broncos and Patriots don't have that. If there is 10 to 15 million saved by losing Cutler, that may add 2 new starting D-linemen that can fill holes so that teams can't run all over the Bears. It may bring in Tillman or Jennings replacement and a competent Safety. There is so many holes on the team and only so many draft picks to fill the holes.

I believe it is about 6 million in dead cap space if we cut Peppers in the offseason.

 

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

McCown was coaching high school football before the Bears signed him. He knows his role is as a backup in the NFL. He is 35. If the Bears make a decent backup offer to him, he will be back.

 

Peace

 

Agreed. With being 35 and through his experiences he has learned the value of humility. He knows his role and would probably not expect more, in Chicago or otherwise.

[jason]

OK, I see. I still think, despite McCown's solid play, that talk of moving Cutler is foolhardy. I do see the value in having extra cash for revamping the D but wonder how teams like Denver, New England, etc seem to have the money for a great QB and their D?

 

I know, you're now going to say Cutler ain't no Brady. And that's true. I'm just saying, if they can afford both, and we should get Cutler for less than those guys, I don't understand why we wouldn't have the money to stock the Defensive team as well. Heck, if we can cut loose of Pep and his salary, I understnad there's a hit in 2014 for this, but we'll have shotloads of dough for the D after we deal with him.

 

There's going to be a lot of hard decisions this off season. No question. Our team is basically a bunch of guys on one year contracts! But McCown isn't my guy long term. No way.

 

But what would you say if McCown continues to produce, the Bears leverage that against Cutler and he ends up walking, then next year the Bears start McCown and have a mid-round (3-5) QB that Trestman loves as the project for 2015? If that allows the Bears to get one or two marquee FA's on defense - and considering McCown's performance this year - I don't think it's a terrible idea to use McCown as a stop-gap for one year. Hell, maybe McCown really is Rich Gannon 2.0?!

[jason]

It's probably already too late to have both McCown and Cutler next year. If we give Cutler a big contract, McCown won't accept being guaranteed to never be a starter for the rest of his career, because he doesn't have to. With a QB rating of 101 in five games, he's consistently played great...and being a tall, strong-armed, athletic guy, he's even got the measurables. Meanwhile, Cutler has never posted a QB rating for the year in the 90's in his whole career (including this year). Of course, Cutler's significantly younger and more experienced. But what happens if this season ends without any solid evidence that Cutler should be considered an elite QB? And then what if Cutler get's it in his mind that he won't accept anything less than the major bank he probably planned on getting before this season, regardless of what his bargaining position actually is?

 

In short, everything depends on Cutler. When Cutler plays again, how will he play? If he doesn't play his best ball of his career, will he accept reality and be happy with a contract befitting a talented, veteran QB? or will it be 14 million/yr or bust? I have no idea on any of those counts. But effectively, Cutler will decide his fate, not Emery.

 

Excellent post. Good summary of what I also think will happen.

[CrackerDog]

But what would you say if McCown continues to produce, the Bears leverage that against Cutler and he ends up walking, then next year the Bears start McCown and have a mid-round (3-5) QB that Trestman loves as the project for 2015? If that allows the Bears to get one or two marquee FA's on defense - and considering McCown's performance this year - I don't think it's a terrible idea to use McCown as a stop-gap for one year. Hell, maybe McCown really is Rich Gannon 2.0?!

 

The one thing I'll give you and the other "McCown is the Second Coming" folks; I do trust Emery and Trestman (unless it's about going for it on 4th down) and so, if they collectively think it's a wise move, I'll ride it out, watch what happens and hope like hell I was wrong about Cutler being capable of being an elite QB in this offense.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed as well.

 

McCown I think can be posied as a potential QB coach for the team as well.

 

 

 

Agreed. With being 35 and through his experiences he has learned the value of humility. He knows his role and would probably not expect more, in Chicago or otherwise.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

But what would you say if McCown continues to produce, the Bears leverage that against Cutler and he ends up walking, then next year the Bears start McCown and have a mid-round (3-5) QB that Trestman loves as the project for 2015? If that allows the Bears to get one or two marquee FA's on defense - and considering McCown's performance this year - I don't think it's a terrible idea to use McCown as a stop-gap for one year. Hell, maybe McCown really is Rich Gannon 2.0?!

 

I think fiscally this makes the most sense. I think if Cutler were intent on leaving Chicago (purely due to frustration or wanting "too much" money) then I would be ok with your scenario. Like I said recently, I believe McCown is willing and able to be the #2 ... unless he was asked to do more. At which point I would think he could fill in quite admirably. Remember, he still has Jeffery, M. Bennett, Marshall and Forte on his team. Not like he's working with a bunch of scrubs.

 

 

[jason]

The one thing I'll give you and the other "McCown is the Second Coming" folks; I do trust Emery and Trestman (unless it's about going for it on 4th down) and so, if they collectively think it's a wise move, I'll ride it out, watch what happens and hope like hell I was wrong about Cutler being capable of being an elite QB in this offense.

 

I don't think he's the second-coming. Far from it. But I'm talking about value here.

 

Cutler is a 7 talent that plays like a 7.5 (from what we've seen) in this offense and will most likely get paid like a 9 (or 10 if he's franchised).

McCown is a 4 talent that plays like a 6.5 (from what we've seen) in this offense and will most likely get paid like a 5 (or 6 if their generous).

 

I'd rather pay for a 5 who overperforms and spend the surplus on the various other holes.

[madlithuanian]

I think Marshall could be an x-factor. He loves him some Cutty. If we let Cutty walk, we may be inadvertantly letting Marshall walk too.

 

Just worth considering...

 

My biggest fear with McCown over Cutty is that the inevitable will happen. McCown will regress, we will lose a WR, and we are back at square 1 with another Bears team with a bad QB. Whereas if we keep Cutty, we lock him for 4 more years and it's do or die in those 4 years. And in year 2 of that, you can draft a high calibur QB to replace him.

 

Not sure what I really want...

 

I just have fears with going all in on either guy!

 

I think fiscally this makes the most sense. I think if Cutler were intent on leaving Chicago (purely due to frustration or wanting "too much" money) then I would be ok with your scenario. Like I said recently, I believe McCown is willing and able to be the #2 ... unless he was asked to do more. At which point I would think he could fill in quite admirably. Remember, he still has Jeffery, M. Bennett, Marshall and Forte on his team. Not like he's working with a bunch of scrubs.

 

[CrackerDog]

I think Marshall could be an x-factor. He loves him some Cutty. If we let Cutty walk, we may be inadvertantly letting Marshall walk too.

 

Just worth considering...

 

My biggest fear with McCown over Cutty is that the inevitable will happen. McCown will regress, we will lose a WR, and we are back at square 1 with another Bears team with a bad QB. Whereas if we keep Cutty, we lock him for 4 more years and it's do or die in those 4 years. And in year 2 of that, you can draft a high calibur QB to replace him.

 

Not sure what I really want...

 

I just have fears with going all in on either guy!

 

Ha! Well said. Frankly I get the reasons some are thinking about McCown as an option. He's been playing really ferkin' well! But I just see the scenario probably a little worse than even you put it out there. We release Cut, he ends up with the Vikings and destroys us for the next 5 years or so, becoming what he might already be here if we didn't saddle him with dipshit O coordinators and a turd offensive line. And a D oriented HC and GM! No, Cutler has already proven to me that he's made improvements in the time he's been on the field under Trestman. And he's always had the tools. He just needs to get his mind right. McCown will be a nice backup. Contrary to what someone else said, he ain't going anywhere for starter money. Not at this point in the season and his career. If he ends up finishing the season for us because Cutler is worse than expected, maybe he gets a job elsewhere. Assuming he keeps his numbers up.

 

And if Cutler makes good with the Vikings or someone else and McCown turns out to be journeyman mid-thirty's QB, the same folks here squawking about letting him go will be ripping on Emery for doing what they wanted. It's a way of life for internet experts.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I think Marshall could be an x-factor. He loves him some Cutty. If we let Cutty walk, we may be inadvertantly letting Marshall walk too.

 

Just worth considering...

 

I had actually thought that as well...the "what if" thinking in me. If not right away, I could see Marshall becoming a real nuisance if Cutler were gone. ala Denver, of course Trestman is no McDaniels..thankfully.

 

In regards to the QB situation, I think the best case scenario at this point is to Franchise Jay for next year. I'm fairly certain McCown would be willing to sign on for another year or two as the back up. I agree with Cracker that he ain't going anywhere. One thing to consider is that Cutler is becoming injury riddled.... I shy from saying "prone" but for all intentns and purposes, he's starting to build a reputation with a history of injuries. We all know it, and other teams know it. All things as they are, my money's on Cutler being back next year...if for only one more. And with McCown as the backup, I'm good with it.

[CrackerDog]

One thing to consider is that Cutler is becoming injury riddled.... I shy from saying "prone" but for all intentns and purposes, he's starting to build a reputation with a history of injuries. We all know it, and other teams know it. All things as they are, my money's on Cutler being back next year...if for only one more. And with McCown as the backup, I'm good with it.

 

I think this potentially has more impact on his "value" than anything else. And it'll hurt him in the open market. He's historically been tough, though. So this is probably just a fluke. I'd be willing to take that bet.

 

And if his value is hurt by his injuries this season, that may work in our favor in terms of a longer deal. It's in the best interest of the Bears (cap wise) to sign him, not tag him. It wouldn't surprise me if we had him inked to a 5 year before the draft.

[madlithuanian]

I definitley think we're on the same page!

 

 

Ha! Well said. Frankly I get the reasons some are thinking about McCown as an option. He's been playing really ferkin' well! But I just see the scenario probably a little worse than even you put it out there. We release Cut, he ends up with the Vikings and destroys us for the next 5 years or so, becoming what he might already be here if we didn't saddle him with dipshit O coordinators and a turd offensive line. And a D oriented HC and GM! No, Cutler has already proven to me that he's made improvements in the time he's been on the field under Trestman. And he's always had the tools. He just needs to get his mind right. McCown will be a nice backup. Contrary to what someone else said, he ain't going anywhere for starter money. Not at this point in the season and his career. If he ends up finishing the season for us because Cutler is worse than expected, maybe he gets a job elsewhere. Assuming he keeps his numbers up.

 

And if Cutler makes good with the Vikings or someone else and McCown turns out to be journeyman mid-thirty's QB, the same folks here squawking about letting him go will be ripping on Emery for doing what they wanted. It's a way of life for internet experts.