Trestman has screwed the pooch

[Stinger226]

I'm not going to add anything of any value other than to say Trestman made a mistake. Whatever he used to justify it, he needs to rethink. 3rd down is one thing, but 2nd?

I was giving Trestman a B+ this year but with the mistakes he has made in the last few games that has dropped to a C-. I am looking for some consistency on his decisions. Is he an aggressive coach? Going on 4ths downs told me that. Is he a conservative coach? Kicking on 2nd down? He has been screwing up lately and needs to define who he is. He brings a good offensive mind to our team, but am starting to waver on his game decisions. Im on the fence now, he needs to show better decision making. He looks like he is starting to make decisions based on not losing, instead of trying to With a lousy defense, we could win out or lose every game, It is more fun when we win, but if we lost all the games it would probably put us in a better position to get some fresh playmakers on the defense side of the ball. The higher the pick the better chance we have for finding those guys.

 

Some other notes: Garza is playing terrible, I am ready for him to leave.

Peppers is starting to play better with two good games out of the last 3.

McCown has played well but am itching for Cutler to get back. I dont think McCown can go out and win a game for us with his arm, Cutler has did that before. McCown is now 2-2, enough said.

I dont think think our defense was going to be great with everybody healthy, but with all the injuries we are God awful. It is not going to get better anytime soon.

At least Stletz can tackle.

[adam]

I was giving Trestman a B+ this year but with the mistakes he has made in the last few games that has dropped to a C-. I am looking for some consistency on his decisions. Is he an aggressive coach? Going on 4ths downs told me that. Is he a conservative coach? Kicking on 2nd down? He has been screwing up lately and needs to define who he is. He brings a good offensive mind to our team, but am starting to waver on his game decisions. Im on the fence now, he needs to show better decision making. He looks like he is starting to make decisions based on not losing, instead of trying to With a lousy defense, we could win out or lose every game, It is more fun when we win, but if we lost all the games it would probably put us in a better position to get some fresh playmakers on the defense side of the ball. The higher the pick the better chance we have for finding those guys.

 

Some other notes: Garza is playing terrible, I am ready for him to leave.

Peppers is starting to play better with two good games out of the last 3.

McCown has played well but am itching for Cutler to get back. I dont think McCown can go out and win a game for us with his arm, Cutler has did that before. McCown is now 2-2, enough said.

I dont think think our defense was going to be great with everybody healthy, but with all the injuries we are God awful. It is not going to get better anytime soon.

At least Stletz can tackle.

I agree on all. We really should look to draft a top center in the draft. Peppers needs to step up with the injuries. McCown is like Alex Smith, very solid and dependable, but will not take risks even when they are needed. That is clear over the last few games. He is putting up the numbers but the scoreboard doesn't reflect. We had a QB with over 350 yards passing and 0 INTs, a RB with 120 yards, and a WR with almost 250 yards and we only scored 20 pts? Against STL, 350 yards passing and only 21 pts. Versus Baltimore, only 16 pts on offense.

 

We should be scoring more with the likes of Forte, Marshall, Alshon, and Bennett on the same team.

[CrackerDog]

We should be scoring more with the likes of Forte, Marshall, Alshon, and Bennett on the same team.

 

Amen. But we have a backup QB in the lineup and he's playing well. I'd expect Jay to take more chances and that could potentially have upside and/or downside, depending. But at least we'd be putting forth our best most in your face effort. I like agressive play and therefore would love to see Jay back this weekend.

[bowlingtwig]

I agree on all. We really should look to draft a top center in the draft. Peppers needs to step up with the injuries. McCown is like Alex Smith, very solid and dependable, but will not take risks even when they are needed. That is clear over the last few games. He is putting up the numbers but the scoreboard doesn't reflect. We had a QB with over 350 yards passing and 0 INTs, a RB with 120 yards, and a WR with almost 250 yards and we only scored 20 pts? Against STL, 350 yards passing and only 21 pts. Versus Baltimore, only 16 pts on offense.

 

We should be scoring more with the likes of Forte, Marshall, Alshon, and Bennett on the same team.

Exactly. This is why I made it a point to show that cutler though he has is flaws was avg 28+ a game. Where josh has avg 22. And if I'm not mistaken at the end of the day it's about scoring more than your opponent. Don't get me wrong defense is the problem. Last yr Josh and his 22 a game would have been good enough on most nights but this yr we can't expect to win much with just 22

[CrackerDog]

Exactly. This is why I made it a point to show that cutler though he has is flaws was avg 28+ a game. Where josh has avg 22. And if I'm not mistaken at the end of the day it's about scoring more than your opponent. Don't get me wrong defense is the problem. Last yr Josh and his 22 a game would have been good enough on most nights but this yr we can't expect to win much with just 22

 

Your analysis would need to exclude ST and D points to be 100% accurate. I don't want to do those calcs but know we were scoring D points with a higher frequency early in the year when Jay was out there.

[jason]

Your analysis would need to exclude ST and D points to be 100% accurate. I don't want to do those calcs but know we were scoring D points with a higher frequency early in the year when Jay was out there.

 

Agreed. The "team scored x with QB 1"-type of statement is flawed.

[bowlingtwig]

Agreed. The "team scored x with QB 1"-type of statement is flawed.

Just posting what I've seen several beat writers put out there on Twitter. Don't know if that includes all or not but I assume even if we take away ST and D scoring cutler is still the better option to ein with right now as he can put big points up on board. And that is my point

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I think even without the special teams scoring, etc, those were the offensive scoring amounts. McCown has moved the ball but struggled in the red zone. He has been a great backup but I'll take Cutler as my starter any day of the week. I do think Jay could learn a few things from Josh though and I have full faith in Trest and this offense and as much as I want to complain, I liked some of the 4th down calls (just not the most recent one in the Rams game) and didn't like the field goal call (but Gould normally is automatic in a dome). Either way, it is nice to see this team compete with a backup unlike the past couple years where they completely collapsed.

 

I can't even judge our defense. It is so decimated via injuries it is too hard to evaluate. The sad part is, I thought they played one of there best games through the first three quarters again Minny (it is Minny though). They clearly don't have the pieces to stop the run in the interior and if you can get Melton to sign a fair deal, the team has to, because we only have so many draft picks and a lot of needs on the defensive side of the ball.

[CrackerDog]

Just posting what I've seen several beat writers put out there on Twitter. Don't know if that includes all or not but I assume even if we take away ST and D scoring cutler is still the better option to ein with right now as he can put big points up on board. And that is my point

 

I think there are several better arguments for Cutler but whatever, we're on the same side here. Just pointing out that you can't give Jay credit for the D scoring, etc. And to be completely fair you'd need to compare the relative strength of the defenses each played against.

 

With that said, my arguments for Jay are:

 

* His arm is an elite NFL arm. His deep ball is accurate and he can win games for us. We haven't had that QB in my lifetime. Jimmy Mac was as close as we've had and even he would admit Cutler's arm is better.

 

* He's aggressive. This leads to mistakes but generally, when he's been given protection, he's overcome those errors. With time in this offense I think he'll grow such that he's making more big plays and fewer errors.

 

* His mobility isn't top 5 in the league but he's pretty good at scrambling to pick up first downs, getting out of the pocket, etc. And his passes on the move are accurate.

 

* Toughness and health. Despite Jay's run of health issues this year and that fabricated media bullshit a few years ago about how he quit on the team, I don't think he's fearless or impervious to injury but he's probably tougher than most QB's and has stayed reasonably healthy during his NFL career, despite some ridiculous OL's in front of him.

 

* His rapport with his receivers is second to none in the NFL. I think he knows how to keep Marshall away from the abyss his personality disorder might otherwise lead him into. While Jeffrey's undoubtedly been stellar under McCown, there's nothing I've seen that says his production would drop markedly with Jay out there. I know Jay seemed to force the ball into Marshall more often earlier this year but that's more attributable to his personality and the level of trust he has in him more than anything else. And Alshon has had some excellent games under Jay as well.

 

None of the above is meant in any way to slight McCown, his play has been incredible for a backup we picked up off the scrapheap. I want that guy back too!

[madlithuanian]

Another well thought out post.

 

You're on a roll!

 

I think there are several better arguments for Cutler but whatever, we're on the same side here. Just pointing out that you can't give Jay credit for the D scoring, etc. And to be completely fair you'd need to compare the relative strength of the defenses each played against.

 

With that said, my arguments for Jay are:

 

* His arm is an elite NFL arm. His deep ball is accurate and he can win games for us. We haven't had that QB in my lifetime. Jimmy Mac was as close as we've had and even he would admit Cutler's arm is better.

 

* He's aggressive. This leads to mistakes but generally, when he's been given protection, he's overcome those errors. With time in this offense I think he'll grow such that he's making more big plays and fewer errors.

 

* His mobility isn't top 5 in the league but he's pretty good at scrambling to pick up first downs, getting out of the pocket, etc. And his passes on the move are accurate.

 

* Toughness and health. Despite Jay's run of health issues this year and that fabricated media bullshit a few years ago about how he quit on the team, I don't think he's fearless or impervious to injury but he's probably tougher than most QB's and has stayed reasonably healthy during his NFL career, despite some ridiculous OL's in front of him.

 

* His rapport with his receivers is second to none in the NFL. I think he knows how to keep Marshall away from the abyss his personality disorder might otherwise lead him into. While Jeffrey's undoubtedly been stellar under McCown, there's nothing I've seen that says his production would drop markedly with Jay out there. I know Jay seemed to force the ball into Marshall more often earlier this year but that's more attributable to his personality and the level of trust he has in him more than anything else. And Alshon has had some excellent games under Jay as well.

 

None of the above is meant in any way to slight McCown, his play has been incredible for a backup we picked up off the scrapheap. I want that guy back too!

 

['TD']

Exactly. This is why I made it a point to show that cutler though he has is flaws was avg 28+ a game. Where josh has avg 22.

 

On the score the other day, they said the difference was less than 3 points when you take out defensive TD's . I think that also ignores the drive against Detroit when he led the TD drive and Cutler didn't do much all game, and the Redskins when Cutler had a bad first half and McCown lead a very productive offense in the second half.

 

The scoring isn't really much different. I do think the play calling has been worse in the red zone with McCown at times. Trestman has seemed to get too conservative and trying to run more often when the line can not open holes.

[bowlingtwig]

On the score the other day, they said the difference was less than 3 points when you take out defensive TD's . I think that also ignores the drive against Detroit when he led the TD drive and Cutler didn't do much all game, and the Redskins when Cutler had a bad first half and McCown lead a very productive offense in the second half.

 

The scoring isn't really much different. I do think the play calling has been worse in the red zone with McCown at times. Trestman has seemed to get too conservative and trying to run more often when the line can not open holes.

I tend to think trestman has been very conservative with josh as its no secret that josh doesn't have the arm strength to take the some times necessary risks that jay does as cracker pointed out a few posts ago. Also have u noticed that Josh's play has been coming down each game or are u blind to his body work.

['TD']

I think kinks in his armor has showed, but I don't think his over all play has went down. Trestman has just been overly conservative. Look at OT the last game. He ran nonstop, then kicked a long field goal on second down instead of trusting his offense. I think people remembering the team incorrectly under Cutler's this year.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I tend to think trestman has been very conservative with josh as its no secret that josh doesn't have the arm strength to take the some times necessary risks that jay does as cracker pointed out a few posts ago. Also have u noticed that Josh's play has been coming down each game or are u blind to his body work.

 

First, I'm not sure I'd want my QB to take 'unnecessary' risks (which what you describe pretty much equates to). Secondly, did you not see the two TD passes to Alshon this last weekend? One for 80 yards and the second for 46? Granted there was some YAC there but not that much. The second pass was pretty much all air and near perfect placement for Alshon to do what he did.

 

And this talk of 'conservative' play-calling sort of baffles me when in each of the last two weeks (at least) Alshon keeps setting new records in recieving yardage. when you're talking +200 yards a game, for one receiver, you're not talking conservative. The play calling has been conservative in the red zone yes. But if McCown was so 'noodle armed' wouldn't he be better suited for those short yardage passes? Instead Trestman has been trying repeatedly with Forte and Bush to only be blunted. I blame poor red zone management on that, not McCown's play. And for what its worth, for the last few years one of the biggest knocks on Jay is his inability to convert in the redzone. In fact somewhere I distinctly recall him being near the top in redzone turnovers.

 

And McCown is 'falling off'? Really? 355 yards, 2 TD's and no turnovers is pretty good in my book.

[jason]

I think there are several better arguments for Cutler but whatever, we're on the same side here. Just pointing out that you can't give Jay credit for the D scoring, etc. And to be completely fair you'd need to compare the relative strength of the defenses each played against.

 

With that said, my arguments for Jay are:

 

* His arm is an elite NFL arm. His deep ball is accurate and he can win games for us. We haven't had that QB in my lifetime. Jimmy Mac was as close as we've had and even he would admit Cutler's arm is better.

 

* He's aggressive. This leads to mistakes but generally, when he's been given protection, he's overcome those errors. With time in this offense I think he'll grow such that he's making more big plays and fewer errors.

 

* His mobility isn't top 5 in the league but he's pretty good at scrambling to pick up first downs, getting out of the pocket, etc. And his passes on the move are accurate.

 

* Toughness and health. Despite Jay's run of health issues this year and that fabricated media bullshit a few years ago about how he quit on the team, I don't think he's fearless or impervious to injury but he's probably tougher than most QB's and has stayed reasonably healthy during his NFL career, despite some ridiculous OL's in front of him.

 

* His rapport with his receivers is second to none in the NFL. I think he knows how to keep Marshall away from the abyss his personality disorder might otherwise lead him into. While Jeffrey's undoubtedly been stellar under McCown, there's nothing I've seen that says his production would drop markedly with Jay out there. I know Jay seemed to force the ball into Marshall more often earlier this year but that's more attributable to his personality and the level of trust he has in him more than anything else. And Alshon has had some excellent games under Jay as well.

 

None of the above is meant in any way to slight McCown, his play has been incredible for a backup we picked up off the scrapheap. I want that guy back too!

 

For the most part I agree with the points, but playing devil's advocate I thought I'd look at a quick bit of stats. Sure, there are a million things to throw into a calculation like this, but I looked at D/ST scoring (disadvantage to QB's numbers) and turnovers forced by the Bears D/ST (advantage to QB's numbers).

 

Games

Cutler - 7, McCown - 5

**Cutler played most of the Lions game, and McCown played most of the Redskins game.

 

Scoring Average

Cutler - 27.2, McCown - 26.4

 

Scoring Average - D/ST Scoring

Cutler - 24.2, McCown - 23.6

 

Scoring Average - D/ST Scoring - Turnovers forced

Assume you just subtracted the number of turnovers from the score, indicating the advantage given to the Bears' offense when the Bears' defense gets a turnover. Even though we know the turnovers leads to more than a 1:1 scoring difference. For instance, in the first game Cutler's offense produced 24 points, and the defense got three turnovers. That's 24-3=21.

Cutler - 21.7, McCown - 22.6

 

Scoring Average - D/ST Scoring - Turnovers forced adjusted scoring

Since we all know that turnovers result in points, I think it's fair to say we expect on average 3 points per turnover. Some are TDs, some are FGs, and some are nothing. But if the Bears get 3 turnovers, I'd expect something around 10 points from that. So, rounded down it's a FG per possession. (I realize this is debatable) So, ignore the previous category and the subtraction of the number of turnovers, and just calculate 3*(# of turnovers). For instance, in the first game Cutler's offense produced 24 points, and the defense got three turnovers. That's 24-(3*3)=15.

Cutler - 16.5, McCown - 20.6

 

Long story short, Cutler has a much better arm, deep ball, mobility, toughness, and aggressiveness than McCown, but in terms of how they have led the offense to points based purely on the offenses contribution (again, debatable), I'd say McCown has done a slightly better job. When Cutler played he had the advantage of a better defense and more forced turnovers, yet McCown's numbers are very comparable, if not better.

 

 

 

[CrackerDog]

Long story short, Cutler has a much better arm, deep ball, mobility, toughness, and aggressiveness than McCown, but in terms of how they have led the offense to points based purely on the offenses contribution (again, debatable), I'd say McCown has done a slightly better job. When Cutler played he had the advantage of a better defense and more forced turnovers, yet McCown's numbers are very comparable, if not better.

 

Accurate. But now also find a way to factor in that I believe the O Line steadily improved throughout the season and McCown had full benefit of that while Jay had to weather the early part of the year.

 

Let's be honest, it's all subjective. I do think if Jay were a more likeable guy, there wouldn't be nearly as much desire to see someone else out there. I'm a Cutler fan and I don't really like the guy!

 

It's undeniable McCown has been great. In comparison to some of the other turds we've had to endure over the last few years (in terms of backup) and even over the last few decades (in terms of "starters") I'd say I 100% understand why some think he'd be a better option given the money it would potentially free up elsewhere. I just don't agree with those folks based on all of the more tangible things I pointed out that you essentially agreed with. And I forgot one: Age.

 

So, given the fact that this is all guesswork on our parts I'll leave it to our "experts" on the team. I may not agree with everything Trestman and Emery have done but I do think they'll get it right when it comes to QB.

['TD']

Did you watch the last 2 games? The line was getting McCown killed, he may have benefited from it early but hasn't lately.

[jason]

Accurate. But now also find a way to factor in that I believe the O Line steadily improved throughout the season and McCown had full benefit of that while Jay had to weather the early part of the year.

 

Let's be honest, it's all subjective. I do think if Jay were a more likeable guy, there wouldn't be nearly as much desire to see someone else out there. I'm a Cutler fan and I don't really like the guy!

 

It's undeniable McCown has been great. In comparison to some of the other turds we've had to endure over the last few years (in terms of backup) and even over the last few decades (in terms of "starters") I'd say I 100% understand why some think he'd be a better option given the money it would potentially free up elsewhere. I just don't agree with those folks based on all of the more tangible things I pointed out that you essentially agreed with. And I forgot one: Age.

 

So, given the fact that this is all guesswork on our parts I'll leave it to our "experts" on the team. I may not agree with everything Trestman and Emery have done but I do think they'll get it right when it comes to QB.

 

Yes, factoring in the OL play is difficult. BTW - I thought many were saying the OL has gotten worse in the past several games? If anything, that would be a positive for McCown.

 

I hate the "experts" inside dig, considering the Bears are currently sitting at .500 and one of those experts thought SMC was a great first round pick (even though 95% of this board disagreed). The experts involved with player selection and advancement with the Bears have been average at best over the recent past. Having said all that, I am with you, and still take Cutler because of the various things you mentioned and the potential. If Cutler's potential is ever tapped, and all things gel within the offense, we could be looking at a 4500-5000yd passing year considering the weapons around him.

[madlithuanian]

Just an aside to the main topic...

 

Just as a gut observation, I think the OL has gotten better on passing downs and worse on running. I have no empircal evidence, just my beer enhanced eyes during the game.

 

Yes, factoring in the OL play is difficult. BTW - I thought many were saying the OL has gotten worse in the past several games? If anything, that would be a positive for McCown.

 

[CrackerDog]

Yes, factoring in the OL play is difficult. BTW - I thought many were saying the OL has gotten worse in the past several games? If anything, that would be a positive for McCown.

 

I hate the "experts" inside dig, considering the Bears are currently sitting at .500 and one of those experts thought SMC was a great first round pick (even though 95% of this board disagreed). The experts involved with player selection and advancement with the Bears have been average at best over the recent past. Having said all that, I am with you, and still take Cutler because of the various things you mentioned and the potential. If Cutler's potential is ever tapped, and all things gel within the offense, we could be looking at a 4500-5000yd passing year considering the weapons around him.

 

As to the O Line play, I have no idea how to measure it. I'd assume starting with two rookies at the beginning of the season was no picnic and Cutler's mobility, etc made a difference. Can't prove it.

 

The experts comment wasn't meant as a dig. I disagree with many things they've done and stated that. But as to the decision on our QB going forward, I think they'll get it right. That's what I actually said.

[bowlingtwig]

So let's just sign mccown to 3 yr deal get rid of cutler. Make mccown the starter. I mean isn't that the obvious choice if you honestly believe Josh is better. But of course if that were to happen and father the hits him then u will bash Emery. And has anyone bothered to listen to josh himself say. "I am the backup. End of story". Doesn't that end the debate right there if josh even believes jay is better.

[Daventry]

How about sign McCown to a one-year deal if Cutty wants too much money, draft a QB high or watch the FA wires, and wait and see?

 

Josh is a company man and smart enough to toe the company line…."end of story."

[jason]

As to the O Line play, I have no idea how to measure it. I'd assume starting with two rookies at the beginning of the season was no picnic and Cutler's mobility, etc made a difference. Can't prove it.

 

The experts comment wasn't meant as a dig. I disagree with many things they've done and stated that. But as to the decision on our QB going forward, I think they'll get it right. That's what I actually said.

 

I misunderstood your original post. Yes, I agree the experts will get the Cutler situation right and sign him. There is no way they let him walk for McCown and a rookie unless something crazy happens in the draft and the Bears go QB in the first.

[jason]

How about sign McCown to a one-year deal if Cutty wants too much money, draft a QB high or watch the FA wires, and wait and see?

 

Josh is a company man and smart enough to toe the company line…."end of story."

 

Whatever happens, McCown is a must-sign at this point. He's the perfect backup for this system.

[bowlingtwig]

Whatever happens, McCown is a must-sign at this point. He's the perfect backup for this system.

Absolutely