The Bears with Cutler vs.Bears with McCown

['TD']

I know this could have went in other threads, but honestly it's its own subject. It's not about Trestman screwing the pooch and it's not about McCown being Gannon 2.0. This thread is going to start with bare facts about the Bears 2 QB's. I'll be looking at 11 games specifically. I'm throwing out the Redskins game as they split the time there.

 

Points scored by the offense per game:

Cutler: 22.4 McCown 21

 

Passing yards per game:

Cutler: 268.9 McCown: 292.8

 

Rushing yards per game:

Cutler: 98.3 McCown 122.5

 

Defensive turn overs per game: (minus ones that went for a TD)

Cutler: 1.86 McCown: 0.75

 

(following stats are for the year)

On 3rd or 4th and 1-2 yards to go"

Cutler: 4 of 10 81.3 rating McCown 6 of 9 87.7 rating

 

On 3rd or 4th and 3-8 yards to go:

Cutler: 19 of 36 94.8 rating McCown: 12 of 22 104.5 rating

 

On 3rd or 4th and 9+ yards:

Cutler: 21 of 29 101.5 rating McCown: 9 of 15 109.3 rating

 

When Trailing a game:

Cutler: 77of 129, 7 TDs, 3 Ints, 92.2 rating

McCown: 91 of 133, 8tds, 1int, 111.2 rating

 

In the red zone:

Cutler: 22 of 44, 11 tds. 2 ints, 81.1 rating

McCown: 10 of 21, 6 tds, 0 ints, 96.0 rating

 

Within 10 and goal:

Cutler: 6 of 17, 5 TDs, 2 ints, 44 rating

McCown: 5 of 13, 4 TDs, 0 ints, 86.2 rating

[CrackerDog]

A few you missed:

 

Age: Jay Cutler - 4 years younger (an eternity in QB years)

Wifes: Jay Cutler - Hot Josh McCown - Cute

Career best passing yards in a season: Cutler 4,500 McCown 2,500

Passing yards in 2012: Cutler - 3,000+ McCown - Zero

 

In short, Cutler, younger and not a fluke, McCown old for a QB and we're not sure if this is a fluke.

 

But are you going to believe me or your lyin' eyes?

 

PS. A lot of this is meant in jest. Don't get all pissy with me.

[scs787]

The age is what gets me. Josh might have 1, 2 years tops in him, and a full year of play might start to "deteriorate" him in year 1. Where as Jay has 4 or 5 more years left in him.

 

What happens if you go with Josh, get the year or 2 out of him then the QB you draft ends up being garbage?

 

That being said, I do believe in the system, so I can really go either way here. How hard is it to be a QB when you get to throw to big ol monsters like Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennett and when you have a check down like Matt Forte? I think even Craig Krenzel would have success in this system.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

The age is what gets me. Josh might have 1, 2 years tops in him, and a full year of play might start to "deteriorate" him in year 1. Where as Jay has 4 or 5 more years left in him.

What happens if you go with Josh, get the year or 2 out of him then the QB you draft ends up being garbage?

 

That being said, I do believe in the system, so I can really go either way here. How hard is it to be a QB when you get to throw to big ol monsters like Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennett and when you have a check down like Matt Forte? I think even Craig Krenzel would have success in this system.

 

Maybe factor in the injury issues too. That could weigh more than age.

 

The stats that TD used to start this thread were compared to both Cutler and McCown this year. Who both had the benefit of playing with Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett and Forte.

[madlithuanian]

Cutler = dick

 

McCown = nice guy

 

Who normally finishes last?

 

A few you missed:

 

Age: Jay Cutler - 4 years younger (an eternity in QB years)

Wifes: Jay Cutler - Hot Josh McCown - Cute

Career best passing yards in a season: Cutler 4,500 McCown 2,500

Passing yards in 2012: Cutler - 3,000+ McCown - Zero

 

In short, Cutler, younger and not a fluke, McCown old for a QB and we're not sure if this is a fluke.

 

But are you going to believe me or your lyin' eyes?

 

PS. A lot of this is meant in jest. Don't get all pissy with me.

 

[madlithuanian]

I think the injury issue is what gets us a discount.

 

Let's also not forget, that the receivers have been getting better throughout the season. Learning routes, blocking better, etc. So, McCown has been a recent beneficiary of that.

 

I'm simply a bird in hand mentality on this one. We really know what we have in Cutler. We know the upside and downside. We don't really know how much more up Josh can be. But we know from his past, that he can be awful.

 

The best case to me, would be sign Cutler to a fair deal that doesn't cash strap us, and re-sign McCown to back him up and maybe work himself into a QB coach role in the future.

 

I may have issue with Emery on his drafting of D, or his BS to the media...but I think the guys knows his O. Pretty much same with Trestman. I do trust that they will make the right call for the team. They see it day in and day out.

 

In a nutshell, I'm not sure either move will be great or bad. But my gut tells me if we bounce the best QB we've had since McMahon, we will end up in a similar situation we have had finding a good QB. Scott Mitchell sure looked great subbing for Marino before landing a real gig. See Cassell, see Flynn, etc... Something about back-ups that do well when truly backing up vs getting the gig. Makes me uncomfortable.

 

 

 

Maybe factor in the injury issues too. That could weigh more than age.

 

The stats that TD used to start this thread were compared to both Cutler and McCown this year. Who both had the benefit of playing with Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett and Forte.

 

[scs787]

Maybe factor in the injury issues too. That could weigh more than age.

 

The stats that TD used to start this thread were compared to both Cutler and McCown this year. Who both had the benefit of playing with Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett and Forte.

 

 

Didn't say they weren't, that's why I said I can go either way.

[Boston Boxer]

I know we have a ton of needs going into the draft and FA...but what about letting Cutler walk and taking a QB with our first round pick. We should be able to land someone like Boyd from Clemson. This is an exceptional class for QBs and it might be a good idea to grab one of these guys now and maybe he sits behind McNown for a year and learns under the "QB Guru" Trestman.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I know we have a ton of needs going into the draft and FA...but what about letting Cutler walk and taking a QB with our first round pick. We should be able to land someone like Boyd from Clemson. This is an exceptional class for QBs and it might be a good idea to grab one of these guys now and maybe he sits behind McNown for a year and learns under the "QB Guru" Trestman.

 

I'm with Mad on this...for the most part. Not sure that drafting high and trusting McCown to be the 'caretaker' of the position is the best angle. I would like to get a few more years out of Cutler, have McCown stay as the backup and draft a QB for that eventual lead role. If it is as good a class as many profess, surely a decent one could be had in later rounds? (like late 2 to late 3?).

 

And another factor mentioned before (yes Mad it was you ... but I thought it too ) is that if we lose Cutler so could we lose Marshall. I don't think we could afford that right away.

[scs787]

I know we have a ton of needs going into the draft and FA...but what about letting Cutler walk and taking a QB with our first round pick. We should be able to land someone like Boyd from Clemson. This is an exceptional class for QBs and it might be a good idea to grab one of these guys now and maybe he sits behind McNown for a year and learns under the "QB Guru" Trestman.

 

It's still a crap shoot though. 2011 was supposed to be a good year for QBs and it produced Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert as 1st round picks.

 

BUT to my previous point about believing in the system, I think they could get a 3rd, 4th, or even a 5th round pick in here that will have success in the system. I'd prefer they wait until then to grab someone. Should be quite a few options to go with even in the mid rounds.

[Stinger226]

It's still a crap shoot though. 2011 was supposed to be a good year for QBs and it produced Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert as 1st round picks.

 

BUT to my previous point about believing in the system, I think they could get a 3rd, 4th, or even a 5th round pick in here that will have success in the system. I'd prefer they wait until then to grab someone. Should be quite a few options to go with even in the mid rounds.

McCown has such a short streak of success. I like he has did well, but can we rely on him to keep it rolling? The Cinderella story is a rarity. Having said that if we drafted QB as a high pick , and had McCown hanging around to back him up or give him some time, I wouldnt be opposed to it.

[bowlingtwig]

I know this could have went in other threads, but honestly it's its own subject. It's not about Trestman screwing the pooch and it's not about McCown being Gannon 2.0. This thread is going to start with bare facts about the Bears 2 QB's. I'll be looking at 11 games specifically. I'm throwing out the Redskins game as they split the time there.

 

Points scored by the offense per game:

Cutler: 22.4 McCown 21

 

Passing yards per game:

Cutler: 268.9 McCown: 292.8

 

Rushing yards per game:

Cutler: 98.3 McCown 122.5

 

Defensive turn overs per game: (minus ones that went for a TD)

Cutler: 1.86 McCown: 0.75

 

(following stats are for the year)

On 3rd or 4th and 1-2 yards to go"

Cutler: 4 of 10 81.3 rating McCown 6 of 9 87.7 rating

 

On 3rd or 4th and 3-8 yards to go:

Cutler: 19 of 36 94.8 rating McCown: 12 of 22 104.5 rating

 

On 3rd or 4th and 9+ yards:

Cutler: 21 of 29 101.5 rating McCown: 9 of 15 109.3 rating

 

When Trailing a game:

Cutler: 77of 129, 7 TDs, 3 Ints, 92.2 rating

McCown: 91 of 133, 8tds, 1int, 111.2 rating

 

In the red zone:

Cutler: 22 of 44, 11 tds. 2 ints, 81.1 rating

McCown: 10 of 21, 6 tds, 0 ints, 96.0 rating

 

Within 10 and goal:

Cutler: 6 of 17, 5 TDs, 2 ints, 44 rating

McCown: 5 of 13, 4 TDs, 0 ints, 86.2 rating

 

So mccown is better in every possible category then. Awesome. Throw cutler to curb and sign mccown to 3 yr deal. And hey when that ends up biting us in the ass nxt yr don't come crying to me cuz you know what I'll say. Do you really wanna go down that qb carrousel again possibly all because your convinced a 34 yr who's never down anything of real note has all of a sudden found that magic Lol. Your brilliant. :notworthy

[Daventry]

Cmon Bowling, no one is saying that, don't make it Terra like simple…..

[bowlingtwig]

Cmon Bowling, no one is saying that, don't make it Terra like simple…..

Listen to everything he is saying. He's making that very case

['TD']

Listen to everything he is saying. He's making that very case

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't making this thread on a basis of why McCown is the better future for the Bears. My opinion aside, I wanted to point out some misconceptions that I have read here and on the radio recently. I planned on what stats I wanted to post to clear those things up, and they would have been posted whether Cutler was better or not.

 

The Bears did score more points with Cutler, but I honestly thought it was going to work out to higher. I clearly remembered the defense was producing more turn overs at that point. I just wanted to point that out with stats.

 

Another misconception I felt was that McCown was bad on third down and in the red zone. Once again, I thought Cutler was going to blow away McCown with TD's in the red zone, but I thought McCown would have respectable numbers to show he wasn't that bad. My arguement was going to be, look he can get it done but Trestman's running instead. However, McCown was actually better in the red zone than Cutler. Also, I wanted to show he has been competent while trailing, when it's often stated that Cutler could lead comebacks better.

 

I think there are solid arguments against proceeding with McCown. His age is an obvious argument against that 2 or 3 years is the most the Bears could hope for. His past career in the NFL doesn't exactly promote confidence that he is the real deal. Obviously, the QB carousel is another argument and for good reason considering the Bears past history. The Marshall argument fits on the smaller sense, but I don't think that would be as big of an issue here.

 

My arguments against going forward with Cutler wouldn't be based on the red zone or third down. He's been respectable in that area this year minus the 2 ints with in the 10.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I think one thing most can agree on is this. Trestmans system can apparently make decent QBs good and good QBs exceptional. Cutler was slowed by injuries but was progressing.

 

Steve Young was right when he came out in defense of Trestman early on.

[BearFan2000]

I think one thing most can agree on is this. Trestmans system can apparently make decent QBs good and good QBs exceptional. Cutler was slowed by injuries but was progressing.

 

Steve Young was right when he came out in defense of Trestman early on.

 

And this is one of the positives I'm taking away from what has been an up and down and disappointing season, should we indeed miss the playoffs. With our playoff hopes bleak, it's made me look at the team from the perspective of what we have going for us from this point forward.

 

The fact that we have an offensive system that not require superman under center to succeed is huge. Being able to have a decent QB (and that is how I classify McCown) and he will be good with the potential to be really good. And it will take a good QB and make them exceptional. Similar to NE where we've seen that when the surrounding cast drops in quality so did Brady's performance. There are offenses around the league where you can about plug any competent QB in and the offense will succeed. For many long years we've not been one of those teams. Now it seems we very well could be. Let's not forget that prior to the Redskins game there was concern about McCown even being serviceable at QB if Jay got hurt, we've seen Josh suck here in the past. I'm sure I"m not alone that when Jay went down in that game I thought it was over right there. He came in cold and the offense didn't miss a beat.

 

I'm loving the development of Jeffery. Two 200+ receiving games in one season last week breaking his own franchise record setting performance. And that TD he caught was probably the sickest thing I've seen in some time. The body control to stay in bounds, the intelligence to keep the ball clutched up high where it couldn't be knocked away and the strength to maintain control through the catch process was amazing. Marshall was 100% correct when he said this kid is going to be a stud. Heck given time he may actually outshine Marshall in this offense. What a luxury to have to absolute beasts on the field at the same time, and throw in Bennet as the best TE we've had in years along with Forte..... Damn we have some weapons.

 

While the D still looks bad for the most part, I like the addition of Ratliff, the maturation of the younger guys in the line. Getting our vets back healthy next year along with some good draft picks on D and we might see the D much improved next year. Not saying I expect it to be like we're used to, but the last few games at times the D has actually held it's own. Just has really lacked consistency and on field leadership.

[jason]

I think the injury issue is what gets us a discount.

 

Let's also not forget, that the receivers have been getting better throughout the season. Learning routes, blocking better, etc. So, McCown has been a recent beneficiary of that.

 

I'm simply a bird in hand mentality on this one. We really know what we have in Cutler. We know the upside and downside. We don't really know how much more up Josh can be. But we know from his past, that he can be awful.

 

The best case to me, would be sign Cutler to a fair deal that doesn't cash strap us, and re-sign McCown to back him up and maybe work himself into a QB coach role in the future.

 

I may have issue with Emery on his drafting of D, or his BS to the media...but I think the guys knows his O. Pretty much same with Trestman. I do trust that they will make the right call for the team. They see it day in and day out.

 

In a nutshell, I'm not sure either move will be great or bad. But my gut tells me if we bounce the best QB we've had since McMahon, we will end up in a similar situation we have had finding a good QB. Scott Mitchell sure looked great subbing for Marino before landing a real gig. See Cassell, see Flynn, etc... Something about back-ups that do well when truly backing up vs getting the gig. Makes me uncomfortable.

 

100% agreed. The key being a Cutler deal that doesn't cash strap us.

[bowlingtwig]

100% agreed. The key being a Cutler deal that doesn't cash strap us.

I think we all agree including emery that using the tag is last ditch effort with jay so question is what type of deal would work. I'm thinking a 5 yr deal. With cap hits of $13-14M a yr? What says everyone else

[bowlingtwig]

I'm sorry, I wasn't making this thread on a basis of why McCown is the better future for the Bears. My opinion aside, I wanted to point out some misconceptions that I have read here and on the radio recently. I planned on what stats I wanted to post to clear those things up, and they would have been posted whether Cutler was better or not.

 

The Bears did score more points with Cutler, but I honestly thought it was going to work out to higher. I clearly remembered the defense was producing more turn overs at that point. I just wanted to point that out with stats.

 

Another misconception I felt was that McCown was bad on third down and in the red zone. Once again, I thought Cutler was going to blow away McCown with TD's in the red zone, but I thought McCown would have respectable numbers to show he wasn't that bad. My arguement was going to be, look he can get it done but Trestman's running instead. However, McCown was actually better in the red zone than Cutler. Also, I wanted to show he has been competent while trailing, when it's often stated that Cutler could lead comebacks better.

 

I think there are solid arguments against proceeding with McCown. His age is an obvious argument against that 2 or 3 years is the most the Bears could hope for. His past career in the NFL doesn't exactly promote confidence that he is the real deal. Obviously, the QB carousel is another argument and for good reason considering the Bears past history. The Marshall argument fits on the smaller sense, but I don't think that would be as big of an issue here.

 

My arguments against going forward with Cutler wouldn't be based on the red zone or third down. He's been respectable in that area this year minus the 2 ints with in the 10.

Then I apologize as I misunderstood. I thought you were trying to make the case for dumping cutler and making josh starter. As much as I like josh I just think he is a great backup for us and not a full time starter

[AZ54]

McCown in his own words really gets it now. I'm paraphrasing of course but the guy admits how much he has changed with his understanding of the game. Jay Cutler hasn't had that moment yet but I think he's getting close to it because his approach the last couple seasons with his teammates has improved. This season he's been even better helping McCown while we he sits on the sideline. Part of the reason I think Cutler is close is that he sees what a high school football coach is capable of while running this offense. When he hits that moment I want him to be a Bear.

 

As I've said before, I'm on board with a contract in the 13-14mil/yr range.

[bowlingtwig]

McCown in his own words really gets it now. I'm paraphrasing of course but the guy admits how much he has changed with his understanding of the game. Jay Cutler hasn't had that moment yet but I think he's getting close to it because his approach the last couple seasons with his teammates has improved. This season he's been even better helping McCown while we he sits on the sideline. Part of the reason I think Cutler is close is that he sees what a high school football coach is capable of while running this offense. When he hits that moment I want him to be a Bear.

 

As I've said before, I'm on board with a contract in the 13-14mil/yr range.

Good point. In years past jay would just sit on bench by himself and now even when he's been hurt you see him up and going over things with trestman. I've seen several times where he's pulled Josh and the entire oline to the side and goes over the photos. But of course because jay is hated by media they will never mention such things. He's really becoming more and more of a true leader

['TD']

Then I apologize as I misunderstood. I thought you were trying to make the case for dumping cutler and making josh starter. As much as I like josh I just think he is a great backup for us and not a full time starter

 

It's all a moot point right now. He's starting again with Cutler not healthy. I still hope the Bears can make the playoffs. Ratliff's looked good for his first game with the team. Briggs should be back by the playoffs and Tillman would be ready for the play. This could be a different D at that point, and the Bears could possibly make a serious run. If the Bears lose to the Cowboys, I would love for Cutler to start the rest of the season. It would give the Bears a better chance to assess what to do in the off-season.

 

In 4 weeks, or preferably in February, we can get back to the discussion on the discussion on if Cutler should be retained. I'll still continue to get McCown's back when I feel he deserves it in the mean time.

[AZ54]

By the way, TD you did a great job putting those stats together.

[selection7]

We're going to get a chance to see Jay before season's end. That's going to answer a lot of questions. 'Looking forward to Josh's MNF Dallas game too.

 

Having read all the arguments, the negative I most identify with about Josh is that he's only shown success over a short time. Heck, Josh Freeman had a 96 QBR his first full season (his second year). Anyone want him? I bet many of you'd probably put the age thing as #1, but as a general rule, I think people make too big a deal about age. What's important is wear. And Jay Cutler has had triple the number of starts as McCown. What do you think is more important? 4 years older or triple the amount of wear? I'd call it a wash.

 

The thing McCown has going for him that most don't realize is his measureables. He's taller and faster than Cutler, using old combine stats at least. He and Tebow even hold the combine QB record for vertical leap at 38.5 inches. He reportedly (and my eyes confirm it) has decent arm strength, though nothing close to Cutler. He threw a couple of beautiful deep balls last week, though it's his zip on the medium length balls that inform my opinion of his arm.

 

Don't get me wrong, going with McCown is clearly riskier than sticking with Cutler, who has thrown for a QBR in the 80's every year for his whole career...very consistent, so you don't have to worry about his 'floor'. I'm not advocating one over the other, just pointing out interesting observations to show it's good to keep an open mind.