Did you see Cutler

[bowlingtwig]

I had a packer fan over for the game and he even said cutler was the better QB in the game. This is coming from a guy that hates Jay. Anyone who thinks Jay is to blame for this game is to be ignored. Jay put us in position to win the game. Plain and simple. If you want to nit pick every stupid drive through out an entire game, then why can't I do the same with every single QB in every game. Its just plain stupid. Offense put up 28pts. Typically thats enough to win a game but of course once again the defense blew the game.

[CrackerDog]

I had a packer fan over for the game and he even said cutler was the better QB in the game. This is coming from a guy that hates Jay. Anyone who thinks Jay is to blame for this game is to be ignored. Jay put us in position to win the game. Plain and simple. If you want to nit pick every stupid drive through out an entire game, then why can't I do the same with every single QB in every game. Its just plain stupid. Offense put up 28pts. Typically thats enough to win a game but of course once again the defense blew the game.

 

Precisely my point which several here can't seem to fathom. No surprise there.

 

I'm OK with folks ripping on Jay when it's deserved but then I went to Facebook after the game and all I saw was posts like "Can we fire Jay now?" And then I figured I come on here to see more rational discussion but... Oh well. Yes, Jay had a few drives where he was less than perfect. But I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a few games earlier in the year that Jay won for us with last second heroics. I'd like to point out that our Head Coach lost us one game on his own, probably two. And the D was brutal for most of the season and without a stellar effort from our offense we'd be damn close to 0-16.

 

For those that just want to argue on the relative merits of McCown vs. Cutler, I'm out. It's my opinion you don't have a clue and aren't worthy of wasting my time with. Your memories are too short. So I'm completely done with that conversation. McCown was outstanding by comparison to what we all expected from our backup and I applaud his efforts. I love that guy! But those results are an anomaly and cannot be expected going forward. Furthermore, Jay grew a lot this season and did NOTHING to warrant his not getting a new contract. I'll leave it to the experts to determine the $$$ and hope like hell we get to see what Jay can do with another season under his belt in this O, with a D that actually gets him the ball back once in a while. A defense that doesn't have us constantly trying to catch up.

 

Lastly, for those that put down their marker on firing Jay, you can bet there will be those of us that remember that in the future. And we won't be kind.

[Lucky Luciano]

Precisely my point which several here can't seem to fathom. No surprise there.

 

I'm OK with folks ripping on Jay when it's deserved but then I went to Facebook after the game and all I saw was posts like "Can we fire Jay now?" And then I figured I come on here to see more rational discussion but... Oh well. Yes, Jay had a few drives where he was less than perfect. But I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a few games earlier in the year that Jay won for us with last second heroics. I'd like to point out that our Head Coach lost us one game on his own, probably two. And the D was brutal for most of the season and without a stellar effort from our offense we'd be damn close to 0-16.

 

For those that just want to argue on the relative merits of McCown vs. Cutler, I'm out. It's my opinion you don't have a clue and aren't worthy of wasting my time with. Your memories are too short. So I'm completely done with that conversation. McCown was outstanding by comparison to what we all expected from our backup and I applaud his efforts. I love that guy! But those results are an anomaly and cannot be expected going forward. Furthermore, Jay grew a lot this season and did NOTHING to warrant his not getting a new contract. I'll leave it to the experts to determine the $$$ and hope like hell we get to see what Jay can do with another season under his belt in this O, with a D that actually gets him the ball back once in a while. A defense that doesn't have us constantly trying to catch up.

 

Lastly, for those that put down their marker on firing Jay, you can bet there will be those of us that remember that in the future. And we won't be kind.

 

i have to agree. he has a 103.8 passer rating and people are unhappy with it?? cutler in my opinion had a very good game yesterday. in fact in the first half i believe cutler only threw a couple of bad balls.

 

there were MULTIPLE drops by receivers that were at critical junctions for a first down. a fumble by jeffrey killed a drive in the last half of the 2nd quarter.

 

or how about the TOP the first half? 18 minutes and 52 seconds!!! our defense cut out at least one series the bears could have been on the field by stopping nobody. it could have been miles worse without the int's in the redzone.

 

let's talk about the play calling:

 

why are we throwing the ball in the first series at all? the packers are decimated in the linebacker corp and are poor against the run. yet we pass the ball deep in our own territory without trying to run it?

 

the last series is totally on trestman. that was one of the worst clock management and play calls i have witnessed. we had 1 timeout and about 30 seconds on the clock and we are on our own 40 yardline. what the hell is he thinking throwing hail mary passes? you work the freaking sideline and move the ball 10 to 15 yards a play to get you into position to actually have a realistic chance to win the game with your offense. in my opinion it was pitiful play calling.

[CrackerDog]

the last series is totally on trestman. that was one of the worst clock management and play calls i have witnessed. we had 1 timeout and about 30 seconds on the clock and we are on our own 40 yardline. what the hell is he thinking throwing hail mary passes? you work the freaking sideline and move the ball 10 to 15 yards a play to get you into position to actually have a realistic chance to win the game with your offense. in my opinion it was pitiful play calling.

 

I didn't like Jay using up all the clock when we had 10 seconds left there on one play. He could've put it up toward the back of the endzone earlier and left another play. That's on Jay. But let's be serious here, it would've been a miracle finish had it gone our way and it was a couple of good plays by Jay that got us into that position in the first place.

[Lucky Luciano]

I didn't like Jay using up all the clock when we had 10 seconds left there on one play. He could've put it up toward the back of the endzone earlier and left another play. That's on Jay. But let's be serious here, it would've been a miracle finish had it gone our way and it was a couple of good plays by Jay that got us into that position in the first place.

 

long ball hail mary throws are high risk plays and only for a last chance in the last second of the game.

 

we threw THREE. if we had worked it down the field (like we have seen in the past against us with ELEVEN seconds to lose under lovie) we certainly could have worked it downfield with the time we had left and the timeout. it would have given us a legitimate chance to run our offense with lower risk passing plays.

 

to me this is trestmans baby. it's some stuff he needs to clean up this offseason along with his 4th down risks for no reason.

[BearFan2000]

GB had allowed 38, 36, and 40 in 3 of their last 4 games, but we could only muster 28.

 

Just like McCown's stats in the Minnesota game, they were hollow. Yeah, he put up decent numbers and a good QBR, but there were very few sustained drives. We never seemed to take advantage of good field position or a turnover. This was not always Jay's fault, but as the QB, he is partly responsible for the offensive rhythm. Ever since Cutler came back, the offensive never looked as fluid as it did with McCown. Just my observation. It doesn't mean McCown is better, but the offense flowed.

 

The only drive we had in the 4th was the dagger, we needed at least a FG, and we punted. He could have put them away (just like most QB's do). That would've made at least a 4 pt game and GB would've needed a TD to win - and even if they scored, another FG would've won it or tied it for us.

 

An epic loss, one of the worst in a long time.

 

 

Also, Orton goes for 350+ on the same Philly Defense we played last week.

 

And that drive would have continued had Jeffery caught that sideline pass, it was in his hands and he's made far more difficult passes. That was a huge drop on a well thrown ball. Thing is there were key failures by about every position at some point in this game. Dropped passes, plays where the RB should have been stopped at the line or for a loss only to see him rip off a long run. blown coverages, poor tackling (one play we had three guys on Nelson all three made contact, none made the tackle) poor throws at times, poor punts, etc. Offense, Defense, and Special teams had good moments and bad moments and some had ugly moments. I look at this as a team loss, we can focus on one player or one unit but it doesn't tell the full story.

[jason]

i believe it was a good to very good throw. this is the throws you expect from a qb with the big receivers we have. this is what we have been calling for all season.

 

the ball dropped right into JEFFREY'S hands above the defender. he just dropped it.

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't see it as a particularly difficult throw. That's a backyard throw that all of us are capable of because it's not pinpoint, it's lofted, and it's severely underthrown. It's throwing to a guy who is covered and it's put in a position that the defender can get to. It just so happens that it's just a great effort by Alshon, and the fact that we expected him to catch it is only a testament to how well he's done this year. Cutler didn't do anything other than throw it up for grabs to a taller, more athletic player. A great throw would have led him since Alshon had a step or so on the defender at about the 20 and had to stop and jump for it at the 14. A ball out in front (about the 8-10 yard line) would have been indefensible.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packer...ears-highlights (about the 4:00 mark)

 

Watch it a few times. You'll see that memory of the play is not reality.

 

 

[jason]

And that drive would have continued had Jeffery caught that sideline pass, it was in his hands and he's made far more difficult passes. That was a huge drop on a well thrown ball. Thing is there were key failures by about every position at some point in this game. Dropped passes, plays where the RB should have been stopped at the line or for a loss only to see him rip off a long run. blown coverages, poor tackling (one play we had three guys on Nelson all three made contact, none made the tackle) poor throws at times, poor punts, etc. Offense, Defense, and Special teams had good moments and bad moments and some had ugly moments. I look at this as a team loss, we can focus on one player or one unit but it doesn't tell the full story.

 

See my post with the link. It was not a well thrown ball to Alshon.

 

As for the rest, yep. Cutler had a pretty good game, and the majority of the blame is definitely on the D.

[scs787]

I'm not seeing the "He had a step" part.

[jason]

I'm not seeing the "He had a step" part.

 

When Alshon is at the 21 he's already slowing up and he has a 1/2 step lead. Pause the video if you have to. That tells me, even though it's not on that replay, that he had a step prior to that.

[Lucky Luciano]

When Alshon is at the 21 he's already slowing up and he has a 1/2 step lead. Pause the video if you have to. That tells me, even though it's not on that replay, that he had a step prior to that.

 

cutler throws this ball from our own 45 to the packers 10. that's 40 yards in the air. jeffrey slows down to make the catch and has position on the defender. the ball drops right on target into his hands and he doesn't make the catch. i don't care if he had to come out of stride or not, that was a good + throw and the receivers responsibility to make that catch..

 

jeffrey makes that catch 99 times out of a hundred. the ball was there. marshall made nearly the same catch earlier in the game.

[CrackerDog]

jeffrey makes that catch 99 times out of a hundred. the ball was there. marshall made nearly the same catch earlier in the game.

 

It's a throw that shows Cutler is developing as much trust in Alshon as he has in Marshall. I liked the throw and you have to use that height advantage to your benefit when you have it. If McCown had made the same toss, many here would be slapping themselves five about how awesome it was.

 

Put simply, it's a tool we have in the toolbox with the WR's we have. Cutler went to it with a good throw (not great) and it should've been caught. Receivers drop passes sometimes and that one wasn't a sure thing. QB's don't make perfect passes 100% of the time. This is the reality of the game.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Precisely my point which several here can't seem to fathom. No surprise there.

 

For those that just want to argue on the relative merits of McCown vs. Cutler, I'm out. It's my opinion you don't have a clue and aren't worthy of wasting my time with. Your memories are too short. So I'm completely done with that conversation. McCown was outstanding by comparison to what we all expected from our backup and I applaud his efforts. I love that guy! But those results are an anomaly and cannot be expected going forward. Furthermore, Jay grew a lot this season and did NOTHING to warrant his not getting a new contract. I'll leave it to the experts to determine the $$$ and hope like hell we get to see what Jay can do with another season under his belt in this O, with a D that actually gets him the ball back once in a while. A defense that doesn't have us constantly trying to catch up.

 

Lastly, for those that put down their marker on firing Jay, you can bet there will be those of us that remember that in the future. And we won't be kind.

 

For the record, I would like very much for Cutler to return, if its the right move. Your 'shot across the bow' (bolded) is you being melodramatic and not once have I said he should be 'fired'. For that matter I haven't seen anyone here suggest that. The comparison between McCown and Cutler HAS to be part of the equation. In one hand the choice has to be made on how much is too much or too little to keep a player like Cutler on the roster while leaving less for the restructure, rebuild whatever of the Defense. On the other hand, can the team afford to lose Jay? I don't think so. The luxury the team has is that they have two very capable QB's on the roster. Not something we as fans have witnessed in a long time...if ever.

 

One thing we agree to is that this is best left in the hands of the "experts" and that's fine by me.

[CrackerDog]

For the record, I would like very much for Cutler to return, if its the right move. Your 'shot across the bow' (bolded) is you being melodramatic and not once have I said he should be 'fired'. For that matter I haven't seen anyone here suggest that. The comparison between McCown and Cutler HAS to be part of the equation. In one hand the choice has to be made on how much is too much or too little to keep a player like Cutler on the roster while leaving less for the restructure, rebuild whatever of the Defense. On the other hand, can the team afford to lose Jay? I don't think so. The luxury the team has is that they have two very capable QB's on the roster. Not something we as fans have witnessed in a long time...if ever.

 

One thing we agree to is that this is best left in the hands of the "experts" and that's fine by me.

 

You obviously know what I meant by fired and if not, I won't waste either of our time.

 

The discussion about McCown/Cutler doesn't need to be part of the equation, you and others just want to believe that Trestman has some magic QB fairy dust (no offense intended to Aaron Rodgers) and I simply live in the real world where QB's of Cutler's ability don't fall off trees every day. If McCown had more of a history of performing that well, if he was 5 years younger, if he'd expressed a desire to be the starter here or elsewhere (hell, to even for sure play next year is at issue) then I might start to consider all the "what if" scenarios. And you're free to do so, don't let me stop you. Just because I think it's silly doesn't mean it isn't entertaining. We've got a LONG off-season to keep ourselves occupied.

 

Besides, it takes all the energy I have to rip Jason constantly. I don't need to be on your shit-list too.

[jason]

cutler throws this ball from our own 45 to the packers 10. that's 40 yards in the air. jeffrey slows down to make the catch and has position on the defender. the ball drops right on target into his hands and he doesn't make the catch. i don't care if he had to come out of stride or not, that was a good + throw and the receivers responsibility to make that catch..

 

jeffrey makes that catch 99 times out of a hundred. the ball was there. marshall made nearly the same catch earlier in the game.

 

The ball does not go to the ten. And it wasn't "right on target." Watch the play again. The only reason Alshon has position to make the attempt is because the defender keeps going and Alshon puts on the breaks. That is not leading the receiver by any means. Alshon DID have position, but he had to slow down for it.

 

Does he normally catch it? Yes. Should he have? Yes. Is Cracker right about the trust? Yes. But all that is because he's a stud WR, not because Cutler tried on purpose to throw it five yards short where the defender had a chance to make a play on the ball. I don't mind the play, but I do dislike the revisionism that says it was a good throw, because in a year people will act as if Cutler led him perfectly with a rocket like in the Drew Brees commercial.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Besides, it takes all the energy I have to rip Jason constantly. I don't need to be on your shit-list too.

 

Fair enough and touché.

 

I have to admit you had me laughing, especially at the end. Jason has provided me much fodder in the past but as of late he and I have been agreeing more than not.

 

Maybe I'll continue banter with the likes of Stinger since he referred to me as a butt-face (or something rather) yesterday.

 

Happy New Year you crotchety so and so. And to the rest, all my best in 2014. Except stinger; GFY. LOL!!!

[DABEARSDABOMB]

The ball does not go to the ten. And it wasn't "right on target." Watch the play again. The only reason Alshon has position to make the attempt is because the defender keeps going and Alshon puts on the breaks. That is not leading the receiver by any means. Alshon DID have position, but he had to slow down for it.

 

Does he normally catch it? Yes. Should he have? Yes. Is Cracker right about the trust? Yes. But all that is because he's a stud WR, not because Cutler tried on purpose to throw it five yards short where the defender had a chance to make a play on the ball. I don't mind the play, but I do dislike the revisionism that says it was a good throw, because in a year people will act as if Cutler led him perfectly with a rocket like in the Drew Brees commercial.

It was an intentional underthrow. Great ball placement and Jeffrey should have made the play.

[Lucky Luciano]

TThe ball does not go to the ten. And it wasn't "right on target." Watch the play again.

 

maybe you have a magic screen that displays things differently than the rest of the world. if not, the ball is in the air and if jeffrey doesn't touch it it lands on the ten but...

 

i guess if we want to get it exactly to the fraction of an inch so you can be right the ball was released when cutler was on about the 46.5 yardline of chicago give or take 1/32nd of an inch. it's trajectory before the ball is touched by jeffrey leaping in the air on the 13.1 yardline brings it down on about on the 10 yard 6 inch line give or take 1/64 of an inch.

 

if the ball is thrown longer to hit jeffrey "in stride" as you say to make it a good + pass the ball would have sailed out of bounds. thus the pass could have called for a 38 1/2 yard route. so i surmise (pure conjecture on my part) seeing the trajectory of the ball jeffrey makes an adjustment like normal receivers do on 38 1/2 yard passes and slows his route (which could have been jeffrey's fault for making his break a fraction of a second too soon off the LOS) and goes up to make a soft catch of a ball on it's downward trajectory and drops it.

 

The only reason Alshon has position to make the attempt is because the defender keeps going and Alshon puts on the breaks. That is not leading the receiver by any means. Alshon DID have position, but he had to slow down for it.

 

when did i EVER say that cutler's throw was leading the receiver? it was a long thrown ball that was in the same zipcode of our receiver 38.5 yards downfield with a more than reasonable chance for a receiver to make the catch inbounds for a long gain. haven't you ever seen a receiver come back for a ball by design or not?

 

 

Does he normally catch it? Yes. Should he have? Yes. Is Cracker right about the trust? Yes. But all that is because he's a stud WR, not because Cutler tried on purpose to throw it five yards short where the defender had a chance to make a play on the ball. I don't mind the play, but I do dislike the revisionism that says it was a good throw, because in a year people will act as if Cutler led him perfectly with a rocket like in the Drew Brees commercial.

 

revisionist? that's pretty funny dude. please show me in any of my posts that i said cutler purposely tried to throw the ball short for any reason at all.

 

finally... no matter what you think (or don't think) it was a good pass that gave our receiver a chance to move our offense into the redzone. you can hate on cutler or nit-pick it in your micro view of the play but it does not change the fact that it was a good throw and should easily have been caught. and THAT is all i can ask of any quarterback.

[selection7]

At this point, I'm still on the fence about Cutler, but mainly due to the price vs performance/durability. Can we afford what he is going to ask for with all the needs on the defense? I have to believe he comes back because he didn't play bad, but it has to come at a price that makes sense.

Too many pages of comments to read them all, but yes to the above. I'm happy with Cutler's game. If everyone had played as well as him, we'd have won. I'm comfortable with him as our future QB, and we can win a SB with him as our starter. None of that says we should pay through the nose for him though, and that's always been my concern.

[jason]

maybe you have a magic screen that displays things differently than the rest of the world. if not, the ball is in the air and if jeffrey doesn't touch it it lands on the ten but...

 

i guess if we want to get it exactly to the fraction of an inch so you can be right the ball was released when cutler was on about the 46.5 yardline of chicago give or take 1/32nd of an inch. it's trajectory before the ball is touched by jeffrey leaping in the air on the 13.1 yardline brings it down on about on the 10 yard 6 inch line give or take 1/64 of an inch.

 

You're the one with the magic screen.

- Jeffery with the step

- Jeffery slows just before the 15

- I'm pretty sure that he's touching it just past the 15 (i.e. the 14 like I said)

 

if the ball is thrown longer to hit jeffrey "in stride" as you say to make it a good + pass the ball would have sailed out of bounds. thus the pass could have called for a 38 1/2 yard route. so i surmise (pure conjecture on my part) seeing the trajectory of the ball jeffrey makes an adjustment like normal receivers do on 38 1/2 yard passes and slows his route (which could have been jeffrey's fault for making his break a fraction of a second too soon off the LOS) and goes up to make a soft catch of a ball on it's downward trajectory and drops it.

 

Agreed. That's why I said it wasn't a great throw like others have contended. It was an underthrow when the WR had a step on the defender. A world-class, franchise QB throw would have led him enough so that the defender couldn't defend the play in any way whatsoever. Speaking of that...

 

when did i EVER say that cutler's throw was leading the receiver? it was a long thrown ball that was in the same zipcode of our receiver 38.5 yards downfield with a more than reasonable chance for a receiver to make the catch inbounds for a long gain. haven't you ever seen a receiver come back for a ball by design or not?

 

You didn't say it. I did. And, yes, I've seen the intentional underthrow. In this case Cutler should have recognized the fact that Alshon had the step, the advantage, and led him. It's the kind of pinpoint throw elite QBs make (i.e. Rogers dropping footballs in nets from 50 yards)

 

revisionist? that's pretty funny dude. please show me in any of my posts that i said cutler purposely tried to throw the ball short for any reason at all.

 

That wasn't meant specifically for you. It was meant as an indication of how this board tends to twist things when memory isn't fresh. Too many times we've had to rehash old issues because someone's memory is poor and they start to rewrite history. One I can remember vividly was the "Chris Williams couldn't cut it at LT and had to be moved inside"-discussion. Regardless of how he eventually turned out, that's been disproven time and time again, but it was still brought up numerous times.

 

finally... no matter what you think (or don't think) it was a good pass that gave our receiver a chance to move our offense into the redzone. you can hate on cutler or nit-pick it in your micro view of the play but it does not change the fact that it was a good throw and should easily have been caught. and THAT is all i can ask of any quarterback.

 

My only issue is the word "good." Everything else is correct. But saying it was a good throw makes it seem like he absolutely nailed the spot where he wanted to put it, and the incompletion was all on Alshon. I don't view that to be true because, as I said above, if Alshon is led it's a much more indefensible pass, regardless of the jump-ball success he's had this year.

[jason]

For the record, this is the kind of throw I would have liked to see on that play. If Cutler is an elite QB, he should make elite throws (play starts at 0:27).

 

[CrackerDog]

"Alshon with the step"

 

Dude, way too much effort to prove your point and at the end of the day I'd hardly call what your first picture shows "a step". If looks like the corner had perfect coverage. If Cutler leads Jeffery a few yards further down the field there's no gaurantee the corner doesn't even close more. Impossible to say.

 

Expecting a perfect throw every play (assuming this one wasn't) is ridiculous.

[BearFan2000]

Because a franchise elite QB never ever makes any mistakes, or throws any ball that is not 100% perfect every time. Anything less is unacceptable.

 

Come on man!

[Lucky Luciano]

QUOTE (Lucky Luciano @ Dec 30 2013, 06:45 PM) *

maybe you have a magic screen that displays things differently than the rest of the world. if not, the ball is in the air and if jeffrey doesn't touch it it lands on the ten but...

 

i guess if we want to get it exactly to the fraction of an inch so you can be right the ball was released when cutler was on about the 46.5 yardline of chicago give or take 1/32nd of an inch. it's trajectory before the ball is touched by jeffrey leaping in the air on the 13.1 yardline brings it down on about on the 10 yard 6 inch line give or take 1/64 of an inch.

- Jeffery slows just before the 15

 

- I'm pretty sure that he's touching it just past the 15 (i.e. the 14 like I said)

 

i stand corrected. he did start the leap around the 16 yd line. his trailing foot comes down around the 13 BUT if the ball is untouched the trajectory puts it on or near the 10 like i said. if he makes the catch he comes down on the 11 yardline.

 

QUOTE (Lucky Luciano @ Dec 30 2013, 06:45 PM) *

if the ball is thrown longer to hit jeffrey "in stride" as you say to make it a good + pass the ball would have sailed out of bounds. thus the pass could have called for a 38 1/2 yard route. so i surmise (pure conjecture on my part) seeing the trajectory of the ball jeffrey makes an adjustment like normal receivers do on 38 1/2 yard passes and slows his route (which could have been jeffrey's fault for making his break a fraction of a second too soon off the LOS) and goes up to make a soft catch of a ball on it's downward trajectory and drops it.

Agreed. That's why I said it wasn't a great throw like others have contended. It was an underthrow when the WR had a step on the defender. A world-class, franchise QB throw would have led him enough so that the defender couldn't defend the play in any way whatsoever. Speaking of that...

 

1. >>I

 

2. this is so petty i can hardly believe you are trying to argue the point. a "world class, franchise QB" would have led him blah, blah, blah. are you freaking serious? so tom brady, peyton manning, brees, young, favre, unitis, montana, on-and-on-and-so-forth always throw/threw perfect balls and always made completions to their receivers "in stride"?

 

this isn't a video game, this is what receivers do. sometimes the ball is thrown perfect and sometimes it's on the receiver to make the adjustment to make that catch. that is the game of football.

 

3. REALITY CHECK:

first... the last i heard soldier field is not in a vacuum or for that matter even in a dome. i know the winds weren't blowing through your tv screen but they were in chicago that day. here is the game day weather forcast:

 

"Forecast: Cloudy, with a high temperature of 28 degrees. Breezy, with a north northwest wind 15 to 20 mph increasing to 20 to 25 mph in the afternoon. Winds could gust as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70 percent, with new snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible."

 

hmmmm.... let's see, what endzone were the bears trying to score in during the 4th quarter? oh yea, the NORTH endzone!!

 

in other words cutler was throwing into a 15 to 30 mph wind. you know, now that i think about it, maybe it WAS a great throw and not just good +. he put nearly a FORTY YARD pass into a position for our receiver to catch it in the redzone.

 

QUOTE (Lucky Luciano @ Dec 30 2013, 06:45 PM) *

when did i EVER say that cutler's throw was leading the receiver? it was a long thrown ball that was in the same zipcode of our receiver 38.5 yards downfield with a more than reasonable chance for a receiver to make the catch inbounds for a long gain. haven't you ever seen a receiver come back for a ball by design or not?

 

You didn't say it. I did. And, yes, I've seen the intentional underthrow. In this case Cutler should have recognized the fact that Alshon had the step, the advantage, and led him. It's the kind of pinpoint throw elite QBs make (i.e. Rogers dropping footballs in nets from 50 yards)

 

first: i never called cutler elite because at this time he is NOT.

 

second: you mean like the pin-point accuracy of the elite rogers two picks? or do you mean the "elite" qb rating that day of rogers at 85.2 vs. cutlers 103.8? also it's pretty easy to 'drop footballs in a net from 50 yards' when you have no defenders to interfere with your aim.

 

QUOTE (Lucky Luciano @ Dec 30 2013, 06:45 PM) *

finally... no matter what you think (or don't think) it was a good pass that gave our receiver a chance to move our offense into the redzone. you can hate on cutler or nit-pick it in your micro view of the play but it does not change the fact that it was a good throw and should easily have been caught. and THAT is all i can ask of any quarterback.

 

My only issue is the word "good." Everything else is correct. But saying it was a good throw makes it seem like he absolutely nailed the spot where he wanted to put it, and the incompletion was all on Alshon. I don't view that to be true because, as I said above, if Alshon is led it's a much more indefensible pass, regardless of the jump-ball success he's had this year.

 

ok so you are saying a 38.5 yard pass into the wind in soldier field in december and putting it where your receiver can make a play on it whether in 'stride' or NOT is a BAD PASS? really??

 

QUOTE (Lucky Luciano @ Dec 30 2013, 06:45 PM) *

revisionist? that's pretty funny dude. please show me in any of my posts that i said cutler purposely tried to throw the ball short for any reason at all.

 

That wasn't meant specifically for you. It was meant as an indication of how this board tends to twist things when memory isn't fresh. Too many times we've had to rehash old issues because someone's memory is poor and they start to rewrite history. One I can remember vividly was the "Chris Williams couldn't cut it at LT and had to be moved inside"-discussion. Regardless of how he eventually turned out, that's been disproven time and time again, but it was still brought up numerous times.

 

finally, you really need to get your posts straight. you can't specifically comment to someone in reference to a comment by some other poster. it's untenable and a waste of time for the person you are replying to.

 

 

[jason]

i stand corrected. he did start the leap around the 16 yd line. his trailing foot comes down around the 13 BUT if the ball is untouched the trajectory puts it on or near the 10 like i said. if he makes the catch he comes down on the 11 yardline.

 

1. >>I

 

2. this is so petty i can hardly believe you are trying to argue the point. a "world class, franchise QB" would have led him blah, blah, blah. are you freaking serious? so tom brady, peyton manning, brees, young, favre, unitis, montana, on-and-on-and-so-forth always throw/threw perfect balls and always made completions to their receivers "in stride"?

 

this isn't a video game, this is what receivers do. sometimes the ball is thrown perfect and sometimes it's on the receiver to make the adjustment to make that catch. that is the game of football.

 

3. REALITY CHECK:

first... the last i heard soldier field is not in a vacuum or for that matter even in a dome. i know the winds weren't blowing through your tv screen but they were in chicago that day. here is the game day weather forcast:

 

"Forecast: Cloudy, with a high temperature of 28 degrees. Breezy, with a north northwest wind 15 to 20 mph increasing to 20 to 25 mph in the afternoon. Winds could gust as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70 percent, with new snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible."

 

hmmmm.... let's see, what endzone were the bears trying to score in during the 4th quarter? oh yea, the NORTH endzone!!

 

in other words cutler was throwing into a 15 to 30 mph wind. you know, now that i think about it, maybe it WAS a great throw and not just good +. he put nearly a FORTY YARD pass into a position for our receiver to catch it in the redzone.

 

first: i never called cutler elite because at this time he is NOT.

 

second: you mean like the pin-point accuracy of the elite rogers two picks? or do you mean the "elite" qb rating that day of rogers at 85.2 vs. cutlers 103.8? also it's pretty easy to 'drop footballs in a net from 50 yards' when you have no defenders to interfere with your aim.

 

ok so you are saying a 38.5 yard pass into the wind in soldier field in december and putting it where your receiver can make a play on it whether in 'stride' or NOT is a BAD PASS? really??

 

finally, you really need to get your posts straight. you can't specifically comment to someone in reference to a comment by some other poster. it's untenable and a waste of time for the person you are replying to.

 

All of the above in a quick summary:

The elite guys you mentioned - glad you excluded Cutler - were/are elite because they do make those throws regularly, at least more regularly than Cutler, and don't force their receivers to make significant adjustments where the defender can make a play on the ball, regardless of field conditions or single game anomalies (comparing Rogers to Cutler for one game? After Rogers has been out half the season? Really?). What I think is odd is that you find my disagreement petty, even though it's pretty clear you didn't remember the play well. Because it hit Alshon's hands people will remember it as a great throw. It wasn't really a good throw either; I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I watched it with two Packer fans and they both said Cutler should have led Alshon more. I've admittedly been a fence-rider in terms of Jay Cutler, and could live with or without, but it's pretty clear which side of the fence someone is on if that's considered a great or good pass. The only way this is wrong is if we find out, as DBDB has suggested, that it was a purposeful underthrow.

 

And I apologize if I view this board more fluidly than you do. I barely pay attention to which person is posting, and go instead with the flow of conversation over a period of time. It's the reason for the "revisionist history"-comment; it's happened before.

 

BTW - After watching the play for about the 20th time, I noticed something subtle. Alshon pulls the DB's arm forward. Very small, difficult to detect, and a clear indication that he has learned from the push-off stuff he did last year. Much better coaching this year, that's for damn sure.