scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The standard we should have is if Belichick would've done better, we didn't live up to expectations. He's a prick but he's the best. Can you imagine THAT GUY fielding a defense this god-aweful no matter what injuries his team took? I cannot. His backups would've been better prepared. He would've changed whatever was necessary to the scheme to put the players he had in the best possible position to succeed. I hope I'm wrong and Tucker kicks major ass next season. But this doesn't sit well with me. Huh??? Pats D gave up just 343 less yards than the Bears did.(26th place) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the D is awful again, you oust the DC, and Emery takes charge and starts hiring the D side of the ball. Yeah....but this bath water stinks something fierce My fear is they are going to blow another season with a mediocre defense and this team will be right back in this position. WHEN Tucker goes, Emery & Trestman should be placed on an extremely short leash; but the bad part is the person on the other end holding the leash is the highly ineffective Sweaty Teddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 So, Trestman and Emery are staking their future with the franchise on Mel Tucker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan2000 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the D is awful again, you oust the DC, and Emery takes charge and starts hiring the D side of the ball. I agree, and there is no denying this D went from one of the best to possibly the worst ever in various categories. I think we are all embarrassed as fans and extremely disappointed in how the season shook out defensively. But to have one bad season on D and to say let's can everyone from GM down to water boy, IMHO is too reactionary. Last years focus was fix the offense let the D go as it had been dominant. What made that unit dominant was guys like Melton, Briggs, Urlacher, Tillman, Jennings, Peppers, Wooten, Izzy, etc. The key as scs787 pointed out for this D is the line and getting pressure and containing the run. The front 7 is the key particularly the interior, which is the area most hit. We then lost two vet starters at LB Briggs being out for large chunk of the season. Tillman in and out of the lineup due to injury and finally placed on IR. The lack of depth/talent exposed our weak secondary. QB's had all day to throw against guys who have poor coverage skills. We didn't contain the run, didn't tackle and didn't take good angles. For a long time we got by with our highly talented vets who till this point had stayed relatively healthy, and played at a high level. This season exposed how poor our defensive depth is. Some of that is coaching, some of that is drafting/FA (though we've focused more on offense the previous two off seasons). What this season proves is the Bears must improve both the on field product and starters but also do a better job of bringing in youth and developing them. I don't think the injuries can just be brushed aside as if to say in spite of them we shouldn't skip a beat or at least shouldn't have fallen that far. I don't think it was the only reason but it was a contributing factor. My issues with Tucker is that our defense didn't look prepared, looked to be confused on field. We were missing some on field leadership when we lost Melton, Tillman, Briggs, and the retirement of Urlacher. But IMO even if your team isn't talented enough to compete, doesn't have the skills to match the oppositions offense but plays it's heart out, understands their assignments, and shows sound fundamentals. Then that's all you can ask. But what we saw was poor fundamentals, confusion on the field, blown assignments, poor tackling, etc. That does come down to coaching, your job as a coach is to get the best out of the players you do have, and I didn't see that. So personally I would have liked to see a new DC, but who? I can understand giving him one more chance to redeem himself and if not he's gone. I just don't look at this as it's all coaching, so we must now fire everyone. If we fired everyone every time we had a bad year in one area or another we'd be constantly turning over the staff. The Bears are a proud organization, and have till this year been known for their D. The goal this offseason will be to do everything the feel they can to fix this D. But I think we do need to step back and give Emery/Trestman a chance to correct what went wrong this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well put... I'm not thrilled in the least. But, I will give this another chance. If it fails, my concerns get very high... I fully believe our O is solid as all can be. I just think if this fails, Trestman needs to be watched as to whom he brings in as DC. Emery will have to step in and make sure the hire is good. If not, both could be in trouble. It's plain sad to waste this O on this D... Bizarro world indeed... I agree, and there is no denying this D went from one of the best to possibly the worst ever in various categories. I think we are all embarrassed as fans and extremely disappointed in how the season shook out defensively. But to have one bad season on D and to say let's can everyone from GM down to water boy, IMHO is too reactionary. Last years focus was fix the offense let the D go as it had been dominant. What made that unit dominant was guys like Melton, Briggs, Urlacher, Tillman, Jennings, Peppers, Wooten, Izzy, etc. The key as scs787 pointed out for this D is the line and getting pressure and containing the run. The front 7 is the key particularly the interior, which is the area most hit. We then lost two vet starters at LB Briggs being out for large chunk of the season. Tillman in and out of the lineup due to injury and finally placed on IR. The lack of depth/talent exposed our weak secondary. QB's had all day to throw against guys who have poor coverage skills. We didn't contain the run, didn't tackle and didn't take good angles. For a long time we got by with our highly talented vets who till this point had stayed relatively healthy, and played at a high level. This season exposed how poor our defensive depth is. Some of that is coaching, some of that is drafting/FA (though we've focused more on offense the previous two off seasons). What this season proves is the Bears must improve both the on field product and starters but also do a better job of bringing in youth and developing them. I don't think the injuries can just be brushed aside as if to say in spite of them we shouldn't skip a beat or at least shouldn't have fallen that far. I don't think it was the only reason but it was a contributing factor. My issues with Tucker is that our defense didn't look prepared, looked to be confused on field. We were missing some on field leadership when we lost Melton, Tillman, Briggs, and the retirement of Urlacher. But IMO even if your team isn't talented enough to compete, doesn't have the skills to match the oppositions offense but plays it's heart out, understands their assignments, and shows sound fundamentals. Then that's all you can ask. But what we saw was poor fundamentals, confusion on the field, blown assignments, poor tackling, etc. That does come down to coaching, your job as a coach is to get the best out of the players you do have, and I didn't see that. So personally I would have liked to see a new DC, but who? I can understand giving him one more chance to redeem himself and if not he's gone. I just don't look at this as it's all coaching, so we must now fire everyone. If we fired everyone every time we had a bad year in one area or another we'd be constantly turning over the staff. The Bears are a proud organization, and have till this year been known for their D. The goal this offseason will be to do everything the feel they can to fix this D. But I think we do need to step back and give Emery/Trestman a chance to correct what went wrong this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Agreed. I am very skeptical. But, I will give it an honest chance. The standard we should have is if Belichick would've done better, we didn't live up to expectations. He's a prick but he's the best. Can you imagine THAT GUY fielding a defense this god-aweful no matter what injuries his team took? I cannot. His backups would've been better prepared. He would've changed whatever was necessary to the scheme to put the players he had in the best possible position to succeed. I hope I'm wrong and Tucker kicks major ass next season. But this doesn't sit well with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Firing two position coaches not entirely unexpected, nor is keeping Tucker around. I was non-committal on these decisions because I simply feel the coaches (Trestman) would be the only one's in position to really know how things were happening on the field, in the group meeting rooms, locker room, etc. Those are just things that we can't possibly know. That and the fact they forced Tucker to maintain Lovie's scheme led to the decision he deserved a second chance with his own system. If we had fired Tucker and went out to interview new coaches that would be their number one concern….will you give me the freedom to run my system my way? That alone may have hindered who would be interested (refer to Washington Redskins meddling ownership impact on coaching search). Than handcuffs are off now but Tucker is certainly on a short leash in 2014. Show us what you got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyBear Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Horse shit. A few token guys get canned but the leader stays. Reminds me of the Reagan Administration. Oh well, as others have said, fix the D this year or the whole staff is subject to getting shitcanned. I understand the Bears are trying to be loyal to Tucker and not fire him after one incredibly jinxed season. With that said, they damn well better make major changes to personnel and scheme because this shit was downright embarrassing. Huh? Your Kidding right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Haa! Found this nugget for all the excuse makers: The Bears lost 47 games by starters to injury, according to a league-wide study by Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. That was actually in the bottom half of the league, ranking 18th. The Giants had the most with 91 followed by the Colts (83) and Patriots (74). Indianapolis and New England both weathered their injury problems to reach the postseason And this: The Saints had an NFL-high 61 missed starts on defense, per Gosselin, but still had a top-five defense and reached the playoffs as a wild-card team. The NFC North champion Packers had 70 missed starts. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,2828424.story But It's apparently okay to some people that we were one of the worst defenses ever because good coordinators can't overcome injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Haa! Found this nugget for all the excuse makers: And this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,2828424.story But It's apparently okay to some people that we were one of the worst defenses ever because good coordinators can't overcome injuries. The Bears missed 41 starts on defense. Plus, you forgot to consider Nate Collins who became the starter when Melton was lost. He missed 11 games. Effectively making it 52 starts on defense (9 behind New Orleans). Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The Bears missed 41 starts on defense. Plus, you forgot to consider Nate Collins who became the starter when Melton was lost. He missed 11 games. Effectively making it 52 starts on defense (9 behind New Orleans). Peace It only takes one. Saints were a top 5 defense this year. Teams like the Patriots lost big names on D like Jerrod Mayo and Vince Wilfork for most of the season. Aqib Talib also missed a few games. But point being, injuries in general, whether they are on offense or defense, can be overcome with good freakin coaching. It's not a death wish necessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Haa! Found this nugget for all the excuse makers: And this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,2828424.story But It's apparently okay to some people that we were one of the worst defenses ever because good coordinators can't overcome injuries. To you first nugget, that's on the offensive and defensive side correct? I think Jay was the only guy who got hurt on offense so that number is a bit skewed. Packers D was garbage too because of injuries.....Looking at the Saints stats they still had a lot of talent that stayed relatively healthy. David Hawthorne, Cameron Jordan, Keenan Lewis, Will Smith and Curtis Lofton all played every game, and Kenny Vaccaro only missed 2 games. So they still had 6 key guys play all but 2 games. Bears pretty much had nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 It only takes one. Saints were a top 5 defense this year. Teams like the Patriots lost big names on D like Jerrod Mayo and Vince Wilfork for most of the season. Aqib Talib also missed a few games. But point being, injuries in general, whether they are on offense or defense, can be overcome with good freakin coaching. It's not a death wish necessarily. Why do people keep bringing up the Pats??? They gave up just 20 less YPG than the Bears did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Why do people keep bringing up the Pats??? They gave up just 20 less YPG than the Bears did. The Patriots are actually a perfect example of a team that overcame injuries on both sides of the ball. You could say the same about the Colts. What Tom Brady and Bill Belichick were able to do this year was nothing short of sensational. And if we are comparing defenses, the Bears defense gave up more rushing yards than anyone in the history of football except one. The only reason they didn't give up more total yards was because nobody bothered to throw on them much towards the end of the year. They had a free 6 yards on every run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The Patriots are actually a perfect example of a team that overcame injuries on both sides of the ball. You could say the same about the Colts. What Tom Brady and Bill Belichick were able to do this year was nothing short of sensational. And if we are comparing defenses, the Bears defense gave up more rushing yards than anyone in the history of football except one. The only reason they didn't give up more total yards was because nobody bothered to throw on them much towards the end of the year. They had a free 6 yards on every run. They were still just a single yard away from being a bottom 5 D in terms of yardage. But whatevs, he's here whether we like it or not. Give him some talent and hope they stay health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Why do people keep bringing up the Pats??? They gave up just 20 less YPG than the Bears did. But the Pats were 10th in the league in scoring defense, giving up 8.8 fewer points per game than the Bears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 But the Pats were 10th in the league in scoring defense, giving up 8.8 fewer points per game than the Bears. Ya, that part is rather surprising. There were 4 games where they allowed fewer than 14pts. At the end of the day, even through injuries, they still had play makers on the field. Hightower, Spikes, Ninkovich, and Chandler Jones all played every game, and when Mayo went down they were able to replace him with a 2R pick in Jaime Collins(who I wanted so bad over Bostic, but that's not on Mel). Who did the Bears have healthy that were on those guys level? Peppers was healthy all year, but he's been on the decline, wasn't even that good last year. Jennings was healthy all year, but the pass defense isn't what's in question. Anderson was about the only guy that stayed healthy and put together a good year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Jennings was healthy all year, but the pass defense isn't what's in question. Really? I know the biggest issue was rush D but damn if they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down (or 4th down against the Packers). No pass rush to speak of, poor tackling. I know there were injuries but Jesus man, this was supposed to be a bend but don't break D and it broke all season long. If Tucker wasn't smart enough to run it and get the basics right, why should we feel confident he'll get a D of his own creation right? What from his past gives you confidence in this guy? I know why the Bears organization (in this case it's, IMO, coming from the top, not necessarily Trestman or Emery but from ownership) is sticking with him. But I wonder why a fan of the team would want another ride on the Tucker-Go-Round after that absolutely abysmal season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GakMan23 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 If you are going to use injuries as an excuse to keep Tucker, BUT still fire the DL coach and Linebackers coach, you are working in double standards. This staff is starting to look like the Lovie, Angelo dance step, except on the opposite spectrum of the game. O is good and D is god awful instead of the other way around. If there is not a serious upgrade in the quality of play next season from the D, we know, we are in for the same crap, just different names. Oh and when has Tucker ever run his own Defense? He has always taken over for another coach and run their same D. The one time in Cleveland, he ran his own D, he was fired for sucking that very offseason. I do not like Tucker as our DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Really? I know the biggest issue was rush D but damn if they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down (or 4th down against the Packers). No pass rush to speak of, poor tackling. I know there were injuries but Jesus man, this was supposed to be a bend but don't break D and it broke all season long. If Tucker wasn't smart enough to run it and get the basics right, why should we feel confident he'll get a D of his own creation right? What from his past gives you confidence in this guy? I know why the Bears organization (in this case it's, IMO, coming from the top, not necessarily Trestman or Emery but from ownership) is sticking with him. But I wonder why a fan of the team would want another ride on the Tucker-Go-Round after that absolutely abysmal season. It was brought to my attention that Mel is apparently highly thought of in the coaching ranks. He was up for the head coaching job in Jacksonville in 2012 but ultimately didn't get it. Also, per wiki, "In the 2011 season head coach Jack Del Rio put Tucker in charge of defensive play-calling, and the team quickly became the fourth highest rated in the NFL.", so no, Del Rio wasn't calling the shots the year the Jags were good defensively. Trestman went through a new DC almost every year in the CFL so he's obviously not afraid to move on. There just has got to be something good about this guy that we as fans are not seeing on the field. I, as a fan, realized long ago that the key to a cover 2 D is the DL, and know it's damn near impossible to run the damn thing when you're lining up a declining Julius Peppers, an out of position Corey Wootton, a banged up Stephen Paea, and SMC who was garbage under Smith as well, as your stating front 4. To me you can't say "Ya we had injuries but", there is no but to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 If you are going to use injuries as an excuse to keep Tucker, BUT still fire the DL coach and Linebackers coach, you are working in double standards. This staff is starting to look like the Lovie, Angelo dance step, except on the opposite spectrum of the game. O is good and D is god awful instead of the other way around. If there is not a serious upgrade in the quality of play next season from the D, we know, we are in for the same crap, just different names. Oh and when has Tucker ever run his own Defense? He has always taken over for another coach and run their same D. The one time in Cleveland, he ran his own D, he was fired for sucking that very offseason. I do not like Tucker as our DC. See my post above. In 2011 he was calling the shots and the Jags finished 4th defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GakMan23 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 How was that D after Del Rio left and was still "not making the calls"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GakMan23 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Oh that's right, they ranked 30th!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 How was that D after Del Rio left and was still "not making the calls"? Pretty bad, but he's at least shown the ability to have a good defense. Look I don't wanna make it out like I'm a big time supprter, because I'm not, I was pretty much on the fence about him, I'm just trying to throw some reason into the discussion. Give him a chance to show what he can do with a healthy team, if he fails then ya it's time to let him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GakMan23 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Pretty bad, but he's at least shown the ability to have a good defense. Look I don't wanna make it out like I'm a big time supprter, because I'm not, I was pretty much on the fence about him, I'm just trying to throw some reason into the discussion. Give him a chance to show what he can do with a healthy team, if he fails then ya it's time to let him go. My point is I don't think he was making the calls in important situations and after his "mentor" left and he didn't have that crutch to fall back on and tell him what to do, he failed, and his track record continues to show it everywhere he has been. I too hope I am wrong and he turns things around, but if it looks like crap and smells like crap...well you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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