Wade Phillips wants a job

[Mongo3451]

Kiffin is probably past his prime, but he is arguably the greatest DC in NFL history. If you are going to give anyone some slack, he'd be the guy. And to be frank, I probably would have fired him too. It would seem like he's lost it a bit (given his tenure at USC and what happened at Dallas). However, his track record vs. Tucker's track record is not even in the same stratosphere.

I'd put several ahead of Kiffin. Lebeau, Ryan, Capers, Belichick

[Lucky Luciano]

So should every other team needing a DC but yet he didn't get a call....from anyone.

 

uhhhh... isn't that how we got tucker? that said, from the sound of it you seem content with tucker vs. phillips. so put it on the line... to me phillips is light years better than tucker, how about you?

 

do YOU believe tucker is a better DC than phillips?

 

And how ironic is it that both teams ran the same scheme, had crippling injuries, and both kept their DC.

 

I wonder why?

 

Oh yeah, injuries -uckin suck.

 

you know, there are ways to make your team better than what we saw even with the injuries. you never answered my previous post about moving some players around to make the D generally better than HORRIFIC other than the briggs comment on when he got injured.

 

let's go into the MLB suggestion about briggs and his injury first. ok he got injured the following week. ok you want to test bostic at the position you maybe drafted him at. that said, how many weeks of the kind of play he showed us would YOU have played him in that spot?

 

because after watching him for 3 full games it was clear to anyone (except you and tucker) that he was not ready to start at that position. by game 13, cowboys, it was absolutely clear his status as an NFL player of 'any sort' was in jeopardy.

 

soooooo, what could he have done, what could he have done? maybe...

 

our glorius leader TUCKER should have groomed briggs for a takeover at the middle linebacker position after having 7 WEEKS to prepare and go into game FIFTEEN as our MLB!!! not that it would have been an IMPORTANT game or anything, just the control of the division and a playoff spot.

 

and what could he have done during that time, 7 WEEKS, that briggs was out? let's take a look shall we.

 

james anderson - a 7 year veteran with over 60 starts in the nfl at the time williams went down - played strong side LB, weak side LB, and has 1 start as a MLB. a 6'3" 220 lb veteran who played under a good system in carolina under chico. could we have started HIM in the middle to tie off the bleeding after about 4 weeks of a historically miserable attempt by bostic? only if you were a capable defensive coordinator.

 

does it weaken the SLB position by moving someone over to take his place? YES, the same as it would have weakened the weak side moving briggs over but any coordinator in his right mind would have, SHOULD have, moved him over to solidify the middle of our linebacking corp after watching bostic play. the MLB position is the key to your defense and especially against the run and to leave bostic in there was criminally stupid.

 

now maybe you would like to comment on some of the other changes that would have made this defense a better unit than what we saw? like moving peppers to tackle or moving wooten back to the LDE position, or moving smc to the RDE position or actually move him to the SLB position if that didn't work out? or move peanut to free safety after watching conte and dudley do wright play like they did?

 

this is NOT hindsight but what capable people do in their jobs to succeed in adversity.

 

these moves maybe would not have made this defense good but it CERTAINLY would have made it better than horrible. even a bad defense possibly gets us into the playoffs.

 

(GakMan23 @ Jan 17 2014, 12:38 PM) *

Actually I am pretty sure the only reason Dallas kept theirs is Jerry was still butt hurting from the backlash of letting Rob Ryan go and didn't want to chance that again so soon.

 

Lmao to the bold. Ya, that makes a whole lot of sense.

 

How many times do I have to address the Saints and New England?? They still had impact players on the field....Bears had shit left on defense.

 

I don't fault them for keeping Bostic where he was, it's where he was drafted to play. Giving up on him after a few games is just silly, you gotta hope he turns it around.

 

first... we had THREE probowl players starting on our defense after briggs went down. are you saying they are no good?

 

second... then how about "giving up on him" after about THREE games instead of NINE? you think him playing like that gives him experience and confidence even IF he is a potentially good player? this is how you destroy someones career by letting them continue like that.

 

(DABEARSDABOMB @ Jan 17 2014, 11:43 PM) *

Kiffin is probably past his prime, but he is arguably the greatest DC in NFL history. If you are going to give anyone some slack, he'd be the guy. And to be frank, I probably would have fired him too. It would seem like he's lost it a bit (given his tenure at USC and what happened at Dallas). However, his track record vs. Tucker's track record is not even in the same stratosphere.

 

 

Meh, track records should hold no ground in this argument. You guys are talking about how a good DC would have been at least not historically bad despite injuries. What difference does it make that he's been good in the past. You did add that you would have fired him so I can't dispute this post too much.

 

you have said some very strange things over the years but this really may be the stupidest thing you have ever posted.

 

my suggestion... get together with tucker and j. webb, buy some land in oregon and start a commune. keep chanting to search for your inner feelings and live in bliss.

[scs787]

I'd put several ahead of Kiffin. Lebeau, Ryan, Capers, Belichick

 

 

What's funny is that 3 of the 5 guys mentioned are ranked 25th, 26th, and 32nd in yards allowed.

[scs787]

uhhhh... isn't that how we got tucker? that said, from the sound of it you seem content with tucker vs. phillips. so put it on the line... to me phillips is light years better than tucker, how about you?

 

do YOU believe tucker is a better DC than phillips?

 

 

 

you know, there are ways to make your team better than what we saw even with the injuries. you never answered my previous post about moving some players around to make the D generally better than HORRIFIC other than the briggs comment on when he got injured.

 

let's go into the MLB suggestion about briggs and his injury first. ok he got injured the following week. ok you want to test bostic at the position you maybe drafted him at. that said, how many weeks of the kind of play he showed us would YOU have played him in that spot?

 

because after watching him for 3 full games it was clear to anyone (except you and tucker) that he was not ready to start at that position. by game 13, cowboys, it was absolutely clear his status as an NFL player of 'any sort' was in jeopardy.

 

soooooo, what could he have done, what could he have done? maybe...

 

our glorius leader TUCKER should have groomed briggs for a takeover at the middle linebacker position after having 7 WEEKS to prepare and go into game FIFTEEN as our MLB!!! not that it would have been an IMPORTANT game or anything, just the control of the division and a playoff spot.

 

and what could he have done during that time, 7 WEEKS, that briggs was out? let's take a look shall we.

 

james anderson - a 7 year veteran with over 60 starts in the nfl at the time williams went down - played strong side LB, weak side LB, and has 1 start as a MLB. a 6'3" 220 lb veteran who played under a good system in carolina under chico. could we have started HIM in the middle to tie off the bleeding after about 4 weeks of a historically miserable attempt by bostic? only if you were a capable defensive coordinator.

 

does it weaken the SLB position by moving someone over to take his place? YES, the same as it would have weakened the weak side moving briggs over but any coordinator in his right mind would have, SHOULD have, moved him over to solidify the middle of our linebacking corp after watching bostic play. the MLB position is the key to your defense and especially against the run and to leave bostic in there was criminally stupid.

 

now maybe you would like to comment on some of the other changes that would have made this defense a better unit than what we saw? like moving peppers to tackle or moving wooten back to the LDE position, or moving smc to the RDE position or actually move him to the SLB position if that didn't work out? or move peanut to free safety after watching conte and dudley do wright play like they did?

 

this is NOT hindsight but what capable people do in their jobs to succeed in adversity.

 

these moves maybe would not have made this defense good but it CERTAINLY would have made it better than horrible. even a bad defense possibly gets us into the playoffs.

 

 

 

first... we had THREE probowl players starting on our defense after briggs went down. are you saying they are no good?

 

second... then how about "giving up on him" after about THREE games instead of NINE? you think him playing like that gives him experience and confidence even IF he is a potentially good player? this is how you destroy someones career by letting them continue like that.

 

 

 

you have said some very strange things over the years but this really may be the stupidest thing you have ever posted.

 

my suggestion... get together with tucker and j. webb, buy some land in oregon and start a commune. keep chanting to search for your inner feelings and live in bliss.

 

 

I've already addressed the position changes. Hasn't Briggs been on record saying he doesn't want to move to MLB anyway?....Of the 3 starting pro bowlers

2 of them are in the secondary and 1 is an aging declining Julius Peppers who wouldn't have been any better than Wootton at DT.

 

 

How was that last post stupid???? Just because Kiffin has a track record its ok that he coached his injury plagued team to the 3rd worst defense in NFL history? But because Tucker only has 1 good year under his belt it's different??? I'm sorry nut I don't see the difference

[scs787]

And I've already said that I think Phillips is better than Tucker.

 

 

Also, i find it rather hilarious that you guys wanna give Jack Del Rio the credit for the 1 good season Tucker had in Jax but wanna give him the blame for the previous 2 years despite the fact that Del Rio was calling the plays those years and the good year they had Tucker was calling the plays.

[BearFan PHX]

Meh, track records should hold no ground in this argument. You guys are talking about how a good DC would have been at least not historically bad despite injuries. What difference does it make that he's been good in the past. You did add that you would have fired him so I can't dispute this post too much.

 

Oh come ON. If track records don't matter, then all your stats don't matter either, so you know that's a ridiculous argument.

 

You have framed this as a competition between two supposedly opposing points of view.

 

A ) Tucker's not at fault for last year because of injuries

 

__OR__

 

B ) Tucker is at fault, and his track record shows he isn't good

 

And that's just so you can "win" or "lose" a point.

 

The truth is that A & B are not even close to mutually exclusive.

 

YES Injuries were a big problem this year, and YES even a great DC could have major trouble with the number of injuries we saw on defense. BUT that doesn't mean that in evaluating what to do for the 2014 season that you don't look at all your options, including those that weren't available last year. In that way, Tucker's track record DOES matter.

 

Also, with all those new guys, we didn't see a lot of learning going on. Again, if you have a guy who has done it before, i.e. has a track record, and he fails one year, you can say "huh that didn't work, but I still believe in my guy" a LOT easier than you can if that guy has never shown you he can do it.

 

You've latched onto the injuries as the ONLY factor, and while it certainly was one, it IS fair to talk about Tucker as a candidate overall. He doesn't get a do-over from his entire career just because he had injuries last year.

 

Now all that said, Trestman and Emery know they has an offense. Even a mediocre defense should take us to the playoffs, so there wasn't much risk in replacing Tucker, but they didn't. They know it will be a rare year where the entire scheme of the defense could be changed. You could get any guy running any scheme and install it this year. But they chose Tucker, presumably for the same reasons they liked him before.

 

I don't know what that might be. His track record isn't stellar. But they have something in mind, and they know a lot more than we do, both in terms of Xs and Os and leadership in professional football.

 

So I guess we'll see what Tucker's got. And I'm rooting for him. But a track record and/or seeing growth in young players this past year sure would go a long way in making me feel comfortable, and to put it in terms of this particular argument, either of those things might have gotten Tucker a quicker and more certain endorsement from the Bears.

[Lucky Luciano]

I've already addressed the position changes. Hasn't Briggs been on record saying he doesn't want to move to MLB anyway?....

 

if you are really serious and not just digging for your usual "controversial opinion to get an argument going mode" then you really don't understand the nuts and bolts of how the NFL works.

 

any 'good' NFL coach could care LESS what a player wants or doesn't want in adverse conditions. he SHOULD be concerned on what makes his team better on sundays when they walk on the field. if that player is under contract he plays where and when the coach says he does or he doesn't play at all.

 

if a coach believes it is a better option for him to play out of his normal position due to injuries or failed play by a teammate he damn well better play out of position and do his utmost to play the best he can. when his contract is up then it is his choice to move on or resign with the team.

 

Of the 3 starting pro bowlers

2 of them are in the secondary and 1 is an aging declining Julius Peppers who wouldn't have been any better than Wootton at DT.

 

again, if you are just throwing crap out there for an argument it does you a disservice and the people forced to read this tripe.

 

so having said that... do you really want to state for the record that a 6'6" 283 lb. former pro-bowl player j. peppers who has PLAYED defensive tackle in the past, wouldn't have been any better than corey wooten (lighter and never played there before) at DT??

 

haven't you been whining about how peppers has lost the edge in speed getting to the qb all freaking season? so your contention is to leave a bad RDE where he is at and put a decent/good LDE in at tackle where he plays poorly? if peppers has lost the speed this is exactly where he should be to get the MOST out of his play and benefit #2 is we get wooten back to a position that has FAILED all season long with smc!!!!!!!!

 

finally on this subject - to YOU peanut would not have been an upgrade to our safety position? does that NOT move another pro-bowl quality player to a position of need?

 

How was that last post stupid???? Just because Kiffin has a track record its ok that he coached his injury plagued team to the 3rd worst defense in NFL history? But because Tucker only has 1 good year under his belt it's different??? I'm sorry nut I don't see the difference

 

did you not say... "Meh, track records should hold no ground in this argument. You guys are talking about how a good DC would have been at least not historically bad despite injuries. What difference does it make that he's been good in the past. You did add that you would have fired him so I can't dispute this post too much."?

 

maybe i am not comprehending your post correctly. it looks to me like you used "track records" as a blanket assumption. to say a track record means nothing in the determination of the quality of a coach under adverse conditions is ridiculous.

 

and finally, you said you commented on moving the players around on defense. i guess i missed it.

 

 

 

[scs787]

if you are really serious and not just digging for your usual "controversial opinion to get an argument going mode" then you really don't understand the nuts and bolts of how the NFL works.

 

any 'good' NFL coach could care LESS what a player wants or doesn't want in adverse conditions. he SHOULD be concerned on what makes his team better on sundays when they walk on the field. if that player is under contract he plays where and when the coach says he does or he doesn't play at all.

 

if a coach believes it is a better option for him to play out of his normal position due to injuries or failed play by a teammate he damn well better play out of position and do his utmost to play the best he can. when his contract is up then it is his choice to move on or resign with the team.

 

 

 

again, if you are just throwing crap out there for an argument it does you a disservice and the people forced to read this tripe.

 

so having said that... do you really want to state for the record that a 6'6" 283 lb. former pro-bowl player j. peppers who has PLAYED defensive tackle in the past, wouldn't have been any better than corey wooten (lighter and never played there before) at DT??

 

haven't you been whining about how peppers has lost the edge in speed getting to the qb all freaking season? so your contention is to leave a bad RDE where he is at and put a decent/good LDE in at tackle where he plays poorly? if peppers has lost the speed this is exactly where he should be to get the MOST out of his play and benefit #2 is we get wooten back to a position that has FAILED all season long with smc!!!!!!!!

 

finally on this subject - to YOU peanut would not have been an upgrade to our safety position? does that NOT move another pro-bowl quality player to a position of need?

 

 

 

did you not say... "Meh, track records should hold no ground in this argument. You guys are talking about how a good DC would have been at least not historically bad despite injuries. What difference does it make that he's been good in the past. You did add that you would have fired him so I can't dispute this post too much."?

 

maybe i am not comprehending your post correctly. it looks to me like you used "track records" as a blanket assumption. to say a track record means nothing in the determination of the quality of a coach under adverse conditions is ridiculous.

 

and finally, you said you commented on moving the players around on defense. i guess i missed it.

 

 

Sure am glad I'll be leaving here pretty soon and won't have to jump into this argument for at least a day.

 

 

What little speed Peppers still had gets zapped playing inside. You're not gonna get any pressure from the 3T with Peppers or Wootton playing there. The run defense won't be much different if at all. Teams were attacking SMC all day, having Wootton on the other side would make no difference.

 

I missed the part where you said Peanut to safety. Yes, I would love that, but again, he doesn't wanna play there, and yes I think what your veteran players don't wanna do matters.

 

As for the track record statement. This whole convo, or at least my side of it is based on this year. This year Monte "Best in the world" Kiffin led his injury plagued teams to one of the worst defenses in NFL history. What changes that fact?

[Lucky Luciano]

What little speed Peppers still had gets zapped playing inside. You're not gonna get any pressure from the 3T with Peppers or Wootton playing there. The run defense won't be much different if at all. Teams were attacking SMC all day, having Wootton on the other side would make no difference.

 

ridiculous

 

I missed the part where you said Peanut to safety. Yes, I would love that, but again, he doesn't wanna play there, and yes I think what your veteran players don't wanna do matters.

 

ridiculous

 

Sure am glad I'll be leaving here pretty soon and won't have to jump into this argument for at least a day.

 

while you are off, cancel your membership to the flat earth society.

 

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I'd put several ahead of Kiffin. Lebeau, Ryan, Capers, Belichick

I said defensive coordinator. Dom Capers is highly mediocre for a large chunk of his career. Kiffin routinely had elite defenses during his reign. yes, most of it was during the bucks but he did lead and pretty much invent the famous cover 2 D that worked extremely effectively for a long time. LeBeau is also an elite D coordinator. To me, in the past 20 years, you basically have Kiffin, Lebeau, and Wade Phillips. They have consistently proven to be elite DC's.

[Mongo3451]

What's funny is that 3 of the 5 guys mentioned are ranked 25th, 26th, and 32nd in yards allowed.

When you become wiser, you will find the only stats that matter start with W and L.

[scs787]

Lol you guys are great. Fire Trestman, fire Emery, what are those clowns doing in the NFl making dumb ass decisions like hiring and then keeping Mel Tucker. Unforgivable.

[Lucky Luciano]

I said defensive coordinator. Dom Capers is highly mediocre for a large chunk of his career. Kiffin routinely had elite defenses during his reign. yes, most of it was during the bucks but he did lead and pretty much invent the famous cover 2 D that worked extremely effectively for a long time. LeBeau is also an elite D coordinator. To me, in the past 20 years, you basically have Kiffin, Lebeau, and Wade Phillips. They have consistently proven to be elite DC's.

 

not to dig on you but bud carson was pretty much the father of the cover 2 back when he was DC with the steelers in the 70's if i'm not mistaken.

 

i agree with you that kiffin, lebeau and phillips were very good DC's.

 

on phillips he is a poor head coach but as a DC he has brought a good + defense with him wherever he has gone. the absolute plus with phillips is if we had hired him is he would have stayed with us till he retired or we fired him. his head coaching career is over at his age.

 

he would make our defense better than mediocre as tucker's ceiling indicates is in our future.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

not to dig on you but bud carson was pretty much the father of the cover 2 back when he was DC with the steelers in the 70's if i'm not mistaken.

 

i agree with you that kiffin, lebeau and phillips were very good DC's.

 

on phillips he is a poor head coach but as a DC he has brought a good + defense with him wherever he has gone. the absolute plus with phillips is if we had hired him is he would have stayed with us till he retired or we fired him. his head coaching career is over at his age.

 

he would make our defense better than mediocre as tucker's ceiling indicates is in our future.

if it happened before I was born, it doesn't count . That is actually good to know. I always assumed Kiffin created it but I guess he just brought it back "en vogue". Completely agree on Phillips. It is just a no brainer, especially when you have a coach like Trestman who has routinely ran DC's out (see CFL era). Why not just give him a guy like Wade who flat out can run the show on the defensive side and limit what Trestman has to worry about.

[Lucky Luciano]

if it happened before I was born, it doesn't count . That is actually good to know. I always assumed Kiffin created it but I guess he just brought it back "en vogue". Completely agree on Phillips. It is just a no brainer, especially when you have a coach like Trestman who has routinely ran DC's out (see CFL era). Why not just give him a guy like Wade who flat out can run the show on the defensive side and limit what Trestman has to worry about.

 

if i am not mistaken the cover 2 came back, or was refined and redefined, to counter bill walsh's west coast offense from the 80's - 90's.

 

yea, this phillips miss is very sad for our franchise. he was tailor made to coach in chicago without any worry that if our defense became stellar that he leaves for a HC job like many would/will do.

 

NOTE: your take on phillips and trestman together is spot on.

 

The ONLY alternative i can see is just bite the bullet and fire tucker anyway (which i would do in a heartbeat) or if we hire phillips as a position coach/assistant head coach. that way if we dump tucker we have phillips in line for DC. if we paid him like a DC maybe he would accept it.

 

an interesting note: aome really good DC's make really poor HC's.

buddy ryan great DC in chicago (not sure what his position was with the vikings before we hired him) and DC for the oilers.

bud carson a very good DC in pittsburgh but poor HC in cleveland.

wade phillips - poor head coach in denver, buffalo and dallas but did some very nice things as DC in new orleans, philly under buddy ryan, denver, buffalo, san diego and houston texans.

some others that escape my memory

 

EDIT: just thought of another (how could i have forgot this one) george allen average to poor head coach for the rams and skins and a very good DC with chicago in the early to mid 60's.

[GakMan23]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/cow...caller-22274105

 

 

Well Jerry demoted Kiffin and promoted Marinelli, so oops, even the Cowgirls were smart enough to make a change after all.

[scs787]

Kudos to them, but it's not some big change. Marinelli will still run the same scheme and Kiffin is still on the staff.

[GakMan23]

If only we could have gotten Phillips