Stinger226 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 We only have two drafts to judge by but what we do know. He sees the same team we do and has addressed weaknesses. Grant you, bad miss on the first year , kudos to last year's first round draft. He like athletes.So the next guy will be all of that. He addressed WR and TE bringing us Marshall and Bennett, and drafting Jeffery, so I think he attacks the fixing of the defense the same way. First round grades on defensive players. I used Rob Rangs big board from NFL Draft Scout for this scenario. 1-Clowney/DE 4-Mack/OLB 7-Barr/OLB 9-Mosley/ILB 11-Denard/CB 14-Tuitt/DE 19-Ford/DE-OLB 21-Gilbert/CB 22-Hageman/DE 23-Jernigan/DT 24-Shazier/OLB 25-Ealy/DE 26-Pryor/S 27-Verrett 28-Ha Ha/S 30-Donald 31-Roberson/CB 32-Van Noy/OLB So I think our choice will be one of the above. I think 1-4-7 will be gone so our choice will be addressed out the most athletic of the rest of the first round. If we go by highest rated and athletic that would be Mosley-Denard-Tuitt-Gilbert-Hageman I think in FAgency he will bring back Melton,Wooten,Ratcliff, Bowman,DJ Williams and will cut Peppers I also think that he could address DE in FAgency so that would change all assumptions and may just go with highest rated defensive player which would be Mosley. So for our most glaring needs will probably be Truitt or Hageman. I think he will address pass rush that would have the most impact so: Truitt/Hageman/ and throw in Ealy, these will be one of our first picks.All are physical specimens, and address our pass rush, which will be a priority to Phil. If he surprises us and he capable of that, possibly Donald or Pryor would fill that bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 We only have two drafts to judge by but what we do know. He sees the same team we do and has addressed weaknesses. Grant you, bad miss on the first year , kudos to last year's first round draft. He like athletes.So the next guy will be all of that. He addressed WR and TE bringing us Marshall and Bennett, and drafting Jeffery, so I think he attacks the fixing of the defense the same way. First round grades on defensive players. I used Rob Rangs big board from NFL Draft Scout for this scenario. 1-Clowney/DE 4-Mack/OLB 7-Barr/OLB 9-Mosley/ILB 11-Denard/CB 14-Tuitt/DE 19-Ford/DE-OLB 21-Gilbert/CB 22-Hageman/DE 23-Jernigan/DT 24-Shazier/OLB 25-Ealy/DE 26-Pryor/S 27-Verrett 28-Ha Ha/S 30-Donald 31-Roberson/CB 32-Van Noy/OLB So I think our choice will be one of the above. I think 1-4-7 will be gone so our choice will be addressed out the most athletic of the rest of the first round. If we go by highest rated and athletic that would be Mosley-Denard-Tuitt-Gilbert-Hageman I think in FAgency he will bring back Melton,Wooten,Ratcliff, Bowman,DJ Williams and will cut Peppers I also think that he could address DE in FAgency so that would change all assumptions and may just go with highest rated defensive player which would be Mosley. So for our most glaring needs will probably be Truitt or Hageman. I think he will address pass rush that would have the most impact so: Truitt/Hageman/ and throw in Ealy, these will be one of our first picks.All are physical specimens, and address our pass rush, which will be a priority to Phil. If he surprises us and he capable of that, possibly Donald or Pryor would fill that bill. I came to the conclusion thay the most like position we'd take would be Tuitt/Hageman also. If the plan is to use the hybrid d, then I think we need a DT/DE the most. There is other prospects that I like better, but landing the dlineman is worth the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Are there multiple guys that do big boards for NFL Draft Scout??? Or are you using an older version? The one on CBS, which is run by NFL Draft Scout, has different rankings. 2. Clowney 8. Mack 9. Denard 11.Barr 16.Mosely 17.Ealy 18.Ford 19.Nix 20.Dix 21.Gilbert 22.Donald 23.Jernigan 26.Hageman 28.Pryor 33.Shazier 34.Verrett 39.Van Noy 40.Roberson 42.Tuitt Tuitt is a 2nd round draft pick on this big board and Hageman is behind Donald. When we talk about hybrid Ds I like Donald (3T in 4-3 and 5T in 3-4) and Ealy (DE in 4-3 and OLB in 3-4) more than I do Hageman and Tuitt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Are there multiple guys that do big boards for NFL Draft Scout??? Or are using an older version? The one on CBS, which is run by NFL Draft Scout, has different rankings. 2. Clowney 8. Mack 9. Denard 11.Barr 16.Mosely 17.Ealy 18.Ford 19.Nix 20.Dix 21.Gilbert 22.Donald 23.Jernigan 26.Hageman 28.Pryor 33.Shazier 34.Verrett 39.Van Noy 40.Roberson 42.Tuitt Tuitt is a 2nd round draft pick on this big board and Hageman is behind Donald. The thing with Tuitt, his stocked started dropping after Nix went down. Did that have to do with teams focusing on him and putting extra guys on him? I am always leary of late risers. If Donald is the guy, I will support it. I prefer taller guys on the edge, long arms have more range to bat down balls and reach ball carriers. But it takes a player with heart to go all out and Donald does that. He reminds me of myself! When we talk about hybrid Ds I like Donald (3T in 4-3 and 5T in 3-4) and Ealy (DE in 4-3 and OLB in 3-4) more than I do Hageman and Tuitt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hate Tuitt, or Hageman, or Jernigan, as long as we go DL I'm happy. I just so happen to think Donald is the next Geno Atkins/Kyle Williams, aka a pro bowl DT.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hate Tuitt, or Hageman, or Jernigan, as long as we go DL I'm happy. I just so happen to think Donald is the next Geno Atkins/Kyle Williams, aka a pro bowl DT.... It's cliche' but we just have to take the best defensive player available within the confines of our scheme. We are in the unique position of needing damn near EVERYTHING on defense. On Emery's drafting, I'm still puzzled by the drafting of Shea. Leading up to the draft, the Chicago media felt that we were going to take a DE. Turns out we wanted a 3rd down speed rusher . . . But I digress. I'd be thrilled with DL, but I'd be good with linebacker, CB, or safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 It's cliche' but we just have to take the best defensive player available within the confines of our scheme. We are in the unique position of needing damn near EVERYTHING on defense. On Emery's drafting, I'm still puzzled by the drafting of Shea. Leading up to the draft, the Chicago media felt that we were going to take a DE. Turns out we wanted a 3rd down speed rusher . . . But I digress. I'd be thrilled with DL, but I'd be good with linebacker, CB, or safety. Eh, I know what you're saying but the DL depth in the draft is so thin that I don't think they could wait to upgrade the line. Here's what Mel Kiper had to say..... “I don’t think the defensive line is something you can really wait on,” Kiper said. “There’s not a lot of depth at end or tackle. There is more depth in the secondary that you can get guys down the line, particularly at corner. There’s apt depth at wide receiver. “So if you look at the Bears’ needs, I would say get the defensive linemen early, wait on those other positions just a bit because the defensive line, both at end and tackle, is just not that deep.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Eh, I know what you're saying but the DL depth in the draft is so thin that I don't think they could wait to upgrade the line. Here's what Mel Kiper had to say..... “I don’t think the defensive line is something you can really wait on,” Kiper said. “There’s not a lot of depth at end or tackle. There is more depth in the secondary that you can get guys down the line, particularly at corner. There’s apt depth at wide receiver. “So if you look at the Bears’ needs, I would say get the defensive linemen early, wait on those other positions just a bit because the defensive line, both at end and tackle, is just not that deep.” I can't disagree with you. I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of possibility. It seems strange that for the first time in well over a decade the linebacker position is such a liability. Neither Bostic nor Greene seem like heir apparent to #54 or #55. But you HAVE to get the best player. The safety Ha Ha is a popular mock-pick going to the Bears. In 2003 we needed a DE so we took Michael Haynes. For some reason we swapped picks with New England. They took DE TyWarren at #13 and we took Michael Haynes at #14. (I never understood that trade.) . . . At #16, the Steelers took Troy Polamalu. (I don't want to even talk about who we took later in round #1 in 2003). You can point out the misses with every draft, the most famous is the Tom Brady draft. In 2003 we didn't need a safety as we had Mike Brown and Mike Green at the time. But think what we could have done with Polamalu. The point is we drafted for need and missed. I have no idea how good Ha Ha will be. But we are in the unique position of needing EVERYTHING on defense. Whomever we draft better not be the next Michael Haynes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Meh, picking at 14 we should have a choice of a few pretty good players...Ha Ha, at this point, is the 20th overall prospect, whereas Donald is the 22nd.....When you throw in the fact that there are more good safeties then there is good DTs I think it makes sense to go after the DT. I think there's something in this thought process about supply and demand, I just can't put it into words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Meh, picking at 14 we should have a choice of a few pretty good players...Ha Ha, at this point, is the 20th overall prospect, whereas Donald is the 22nd.....When you throw in the fact that there are more good safeties then there is good DTs I think it makes sense to go after the DT. I think there's something in this thought process about supply and demand, I just can't put it into words. Kinda with Bradjock on this one. We must get an impact player with the 14th. Since we have needs at all levels, get that guy we feel has a special feel for the game. Put me on record with this also, if you see a 2000 yard rusher or the next Jerry Rice, get him with that pick. I don't care how bad the D, you never pass greatness up if you unearth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'll just have to agree to disagree with you guys and go with the Mel Kiper on this one.....Esp. if they end up needing 2 starters on the DL. Right now they need at least 2, 3 if you think Peppers is gone, all 4 if you think we need an upgrade over Paea as well. Like your signature says mongo, it all starts up front! Def not going offense. We saw what one of the best offenses ever did against one of the best defenses ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'll just have to agree to disagree with you guys and go with the Mel Kiper on this one.....Esp. if they end up needing 2 starters on the DL. Right now they need at least 2, 3 if you think Peppers is gone, all 4 if you think we need an upgrade over Paea as well. Like your signature says mongo, it all starts up front! Def not going offense. We saw what one of the best offenses ever did against one of the best defenses ever. According to what you are saying, we should draft DL regardless of who is on the board. Your approach is very mission oriented, but also shortsighted. No team ever got great drafting that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 According to what you are saying, we should draft DL regardless of who is on the board. Your approach is very mission oriented, but also shortsighted. No team ever got great drafting that way. Call it what you will, but I agree with Mel Kiper. Now maybe if we only have 1 hole to plug on the DL then I'm ok with waiting till the 2nd to draft that guy....But if we have multiple spots to fill on the DL I think it'd be a mistake not to grab a guy in the first.....What happens when there's a run on DL in the 2nd or 3rd and because of the lack of depth we're stuck with rotational players starting???? Looking at the 13 teams ahead of us there are a lot of teams that are gonna go offense, so we should have a pretty good crop of defensive talent to choose from. They won't have to reach to take a DL piece, the guys they have to choose from will be all ranked about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Call it what you will, but I agree with Mel Kiper. Now maybe if we only have 1 hole to plug on the DL then I'm ok with waiting till the 2nd to draft that guy....But if we have multiple spots to fill on the DL I think it'd be a mistake not to grab a guy in the first.....What happens when there's a run on DL in the 2nd or 3rd and because of the lack of depth we're stuck with rotational players starting???? Looking at the 13 teams ahead of us there are a lot of teams that are gonna go offense, so we should have a pretty good crop of defensive talent to choose from. They won't have to reach to take a DL piece, the guys they have to choose from will be all ranked about the same. I agree with you to a point. If there is a LB,S, and DL all rated together probably have to draft DL. What if Jake Mathews (top 3 player) drops in our lap at 14?An all pro type for the next 10 years would be hard to pass up. I think we should take the highest rated Defensive player on the board. Other than Clowney, Barr, and Mack we should get the pick of the litter. What we need is an impact player, if thats Ealy, Ha Ha, Donald, or Mosley, who they identify as that person is the one it needs to be. Also, we need some defensive leaders on the team, so that probably would be Ha Ha or Mosley, and wouldnt have any problem with either one of them. Nix is rated high on a lot of draft boards but the injury thing bothers me with him. Mosley is consistently rated as a top 10 player, and would lean towards him. Ealy has some developing to do,so I dont think he would make an impact his first year. Hageman and Tuitt didnt have good production years, so dont think they would be an impact the first year. Donald will be a lower 1st round rated player, but I do think he would make an impact his first year. So I think our pick will be one of these 4, Ealy,HaHa,Donald or Mosley.Mosley would be the highest rated and probably be able to be our team leader for the next 10 years, so I still lean towards him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 But what you are saying is short-sighted and it's the thinking that led us to drafting Michael Haynes. Heck, we could likely bring back Israel Idonije for damn-near the minimum and he would likely outperform your typical rookie. On defense we need game changers. We need difference makers. You bring up a good point that so many teams will go offense. We need to make sure we get the best defensive player available. Call it what you will, but I agree with Mel Kiper. Now maybe if we only have 1 hole to plug on the DL then I'm ok with waiting till the 2nd to draft that guy....But if we have multiple spots to fill on the DL I think it'd be a mistake not to grab a guy in the first.....What happens when there's a run on DL in the 2nd or 3rd and because of the lack of depth we're stuck with rotational players starting???? Looking at the 13 teams ahead of us there are a lot of teams that are gonna go offense, so we should have a pretty good crop of defensive talent to choose from. They won't have to reach to take a DL piece, the guys they have to choose from will be all ranked about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 But what you are saying is short-sighted and it's the thinking that led us to drafting Michael Haynes. Heck, we could likely bring back Israel Idonije for damn-near the minimum and he would likely outperform your typical rookie. On defense we need game changers. We need difference makers. You bring up a good point that so many teams will go offense. We need to make sure we get the best defensive player available. Gonna need to bring back a lot more than Izzy to avoid going DL early. We all have our opinions here, and I'm gonna hold on to mine, DL or bust in the first....Me and my boy Mel Kiper know whats up lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Gonna need to bring back a lot more than Izzy to avoid going DL early. We all have our opinions here, and I'm gonna hold on to mine, DL or bust in the first....Me and my boy Mel Kiper know whats up lol. Actually I think your smarter than Kiper, he has more charisma thou. I think we bring back Melton, Wooten, and Ratcilff, so its not as dire as you might state. Plus I think our one big FA acquisition will be a DE. So I am also for the best Defensive player, even if its not a DT or DE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Actually I think your smarter than Kiper, he has more charisma thou. I think we bring back Melton, Wooten, and Ratcilff, so its not as dire as you might state. Plus I think our one big FA acquisition will be a DE. So I am also for the best Defensive player, even if its not a DT or DE. Call it what you will, but I agree with Mel Kiper. Now maybe if we only have 1 hole to plug on the DL then I'm ok with waiting till the 2nd to draft that guy....But if we have multiple spots to fill on the DL I think it'd be a mistake not to grab a guy in the first.....What happens when there's a run on DL in the 2nd or 3rd and because of the lack of depth we're stuck with rotational players starting???? Looking at the 13 teams ahead of us there are a lot of teams that are gonna go offense, so we should have a pretty good crop of defensive talent to choose from. They won't have to reach to take a DL piece, the guys they have to choose from will be all ranked about the same. As you can see by my previous post, if we bring back/in the guys you suggest (I see all 4 starters FA DE-Melton-Ratliff or Paea-Wootton) then waiting is fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 As you can see by my previous post, if we bring back/in the guys you suggest (I see all 4 starters FA DE-Melton-Ratliff or Paea-Wootton) then waiting is fine by me. Even if they bring back those I mentioned, I still then we inject some youth at the line and still draft a DT and DE in the first 4 rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Even if they bring back those I mentioned, I still then we inject some youth at the line and still draft a DT and DE in the first 4 rounds. I do as well, but the absolute need to go with 1 in the first is no longer there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I do as well, but the absolute need to go with 1 in the first is no longer there. thats why I think Emery will be putting us in the position to grab the BPA scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 What's being ignored here is the difference in BPA. IF the top DT, DE, and FS are all rated equally, then you have to consider what's left. If the top guy at each position is a 90/100, and the next DE is 75, next DT is 85, and next FS is 60, it doesn't matter how deep the class is. There could be 20 FS's at 60, making the class deep, but there is no doubt the better value is the 90 FS because the next best DT and DE are better values than 60. Put another way, 90+85 and 90+75 each equal more than 90+60. In fantasy it's called value based drafting. I believe that's the case this year with HaHa Clinton Dix, because the next best FS is not early as good as the next best DT or DE. The DT/DE class is crazy deep for the first few rounds. Skip FS in the first round at your peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 What's being ignored here is the difference in BPA. IF the top DT, DE, and FS are all rated equally, then you have to consider what's left. If the top guy at each position is a 90/100, and the next DE is 75, next DT is 85, and next FS is 60, it doesn't matter how deep the class is. There could be 20 FS's at 60, making the class deep, but there is no doubt the better value is the 90 FS because the next best DT and DE are better values than 60. Put another way, 90+85 and 90+75 each equal more than 90+60. In fantasy it's called value based drafting. I believe that's the case this year with HaHa Clinton Dix, because the next best FS is not early as good as the next best DT or DE. The DT/DE class is crazy deep for the first few rounds. Skip FS in the first round at your peril. That's pretty much what I've been saying, but according to Kiper the slim pickins are at the DL position and not in the secondary. Really after Clowney and Ealy there are a bunch of question marks at DE. Tuitt is probably better suited at DT, Critchton is better served as an OLB, Murphy could be good, but looked bad at the Senior Bowl, and is also being called a 3-4 OLB. DT is a little deeper with guys like Ego Ferguson, Anthony Johnson, and Will sutton all probably being there in the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 That's pretty much what I've been saying, but according to Kiper the slim pickins are at the DL position and not in the secondary. Really after Clowney and Ealy there are a bunch of question marks at DE. Tuitt is probably better suited at DT, Critchton is better served as an OLB, Murphy could be good, but looked bad at the Senior Bowl, and is also being called a 3-4 OLB. DT is a little deeper with guys like Ego Ferguson, Anthony Johnson, and Will sutton all probably being there in the 2nd. Kiper is wrong more than he is right. Much more. It's just that he throws so much shit against the wall that some of it has to stick. This is a fair list of players at each position who could go in the first two rounds. DEs: Clowney, Ealy, Ford, Crichton, Murphy, Jeffcoat, Marcus Smith, Chris Smith DTs: Nix, Donald, Jernigan, Hageman, Tuitt, Easley, Sutton, Quarles FSs: Clinton-Dix, Pryor, Reynolds Seems pretty obvious to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Kiper is wrong more than he is right. Much more. It's just that he throws so much shit against the wall that some of it has to stick. This is a fair list of players at each position who could go in the first two rounds. DEs: Clowney, Ealy, Ford, Crichton, Murphy, Jeffcoat, Marcus Smith, Chris Smith DTs: Nix, Donald, Jernigan, Hageman, Tuitt, Easley, Sutton, Quarles FSs: Clinton-Dix, Pryor, Reynolds Seems pretty obvious to me. Let's be fair. Its not just kiper. All draft anslyst do the same exact thing. The entire draft is a crap shoot. All any of these guys do is tell us what there opinion. That's all it is. An opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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