Stinger226 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 An article in NFL Mocks website had an article talking about the Bears making many 2nd tier players instead of a couple big names I think this is more on FAgency pans out instead of the Byrds and Bennetts. http://nflmocks.com/2014/03/04/chicago-bea...fl-free-agency/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 An article in NFL Mocks website had an article talking about the Bears making many 2nd tier players instead of a couple big names I think this is more on FAgency pans out instead of the Byrds and Bennetts. http://nflmocks.com/2014/03/04/chicago-bea...fl-free-agency/ It seems like we almost have to go for 2nd tier players based on our cap situation. Assuming we cut Peppers, the only starting defensive lineman we have signed is Steven Paea. He seemed to go games at a time without having his name called. We need a starting CB, MLB, and at least one safety. If we resigned or kept all our defensive players, we'd still need to draft all defense. While Angelo sucked at drafting, I will give him credit for paying players up front and leaving us in good cap shape. This year we blew our load on the Cutler deal. We don't want to end up like the Cowboys who restructured Tony Romo's deal so they are 25 million next year and they are still over the cap this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 It seems like we almost have to go for 2nd tier players based on our cap situation. Assuming we cut Peppers, the only starting defensive lineman we have signed is Steven Paea. He seemed to go games at a time without having his name called. We need a starting CB, MLB, and at least one safety. If we resigned or kept all our defensive players, we'd still need to draft all defense. While Angelo sucked at drafting, I will give him credit for paying players up front and leaving us in good cap shape. This year we blew our load on the Cutler deal. We don't want to end up like the Cowboys who restructured Tony Romo's deal so they are 25 million next year and they are still over the cap this year. There is no cap situation honestly, that is getting way overblown. I think I detailed that rather adequately in my mock offseason thread. As for this thread, you know my response, quantity over quality will only get you so far. At some point we need to make a splash. Given potentially 25M to work with and really only needing to add defensive players I don't even know how you'd spend all that without making one splashy signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 There is no cap situation honestly, that is getting way overblown. I think I detailed that rather adequately in my mock offseason thread. As for this thread, you know my response, quantity over quality will only get you so far. At some point we need to make a splash. Given potentially 25M to work with and really only needing to add defensive players I don't even know how you'd spend all that without making one splashy signing. True, and there's not much I can say to argue other than we have so many damn needs on defense. My only concern is that if you're giving Bennett 10+ million per, he'd better be a game changer and a difference maker. He would immediately become our highest paid defensive player. Next would be dead money for Julius Peppers. Then it's Tim Jennings & Lance Briggs . . . damn we have no money tied up on defense. I think the concern is that he's a good but not great player and we would be paying him to be elite. That being said, Emery did one helluva job signing free agents last offseason. Bushrod, The Black Unicorn, Slauson, Jamal Anderson, DJ Williams . . . I have no complaints from any of those deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 True, and there's not much I can say to argue other than we have so many damn needs on defense. My only concern is that if you're giving Bennett 10+ million per, he'd better be a game changer and a difference maker. He would immediately become our highest paid defensive player. Next would be dead money for Julius Peppers. Then it's Tim Jennings & Lance Briggs . . . damn we have no money tied up on defense. I think the concern is that he's a good but not great player and we would be paying him to be elite. That being said, Emery did one helluva job signing free agents last offseason. Bushrod, The Black Unicorn, Slauson, Jamal Anderson, DJ Williams . . . I have no complaints from any of those deals. Looking at the cap hits on DEs 10M would give him the 8th highest cap hit....I know I already said this in another thread, but if you believe in PFF rankings that's fair considering he was the 7th ranked DE in the league in 2012 and the 5th ranked DE last year. The 10M number is just on the high end too, it wouldn't shock me to see him take a back loaded deal where his cap number is perhaps even as low as like 5M. His bros deal was only 2M last year but bumps up to 6 this year which very well could happen with Michael but with numbers closer to 5 and 10. Though I expect the first year number to be closer to 8, and I'm fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 There is no cap situation honestly, that is getting way overblown. I think I detailed and that rather adequately in my mock offseason thread. As for this thread, you know my response, quantity over quality will only get you so far. At some point we need to make a splash. Given potentially 25M to work with and really only needing to add defensive players I don't even know how you'd spend all that without making one splashy signing. I think Emery prefers to build through the draft, so signing 2nd tier players on one year deals is what we will most likely see. I think we will try our hardest to resign a few of our own like Tillman, Wootton, and possibly Ratliff. Wootton may get a 4 yr, while the others 2 years. Those 3 alone will eat a good chunk of cap, because they wont play for minimums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TerraTor Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 If ur team sucks (defense) why wouldn't u replace it with quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think Emery prefers to build through the draft, so signing 2nd tier players on one year deals is what we will most likely see. I think we will try our hardest to resign a few of our own like Tillman, Wootton, and possibly Ratliff. Wootton may get a 4 yr, while the others 2 years. Those 3 alone will eat a good chunk of cap, because they wont play for minimums. I can't see Wootton getting more than say 2.5M, same for Ratliff, so I think that's 5M tops. Tillman, if he's back, probably gets around the 5M Jennings got. So that still leaves them with 15M to spend. Only need ~2.2M for the draft and hopefully they can find 4-5 guy that can contribute. I just think when you have the money to make a splash, you make a splash, esp. when you have no impact player on the DL. Kinda like when Phil traded for Marshall, it wasn't a FA signing, but he still added a big salary when the need for an impact WR was clear. That's how I view the DL at the moment. I guess I'd settle for Melton as our big signing on the DL but I'm in love with Aaron Donald, and think he'll be there for the Bears, so throw that money and a little more at Bennett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 There is no cap situation honestly, that is getting way overblown. I think I detailed that rather adequately in my mock offseason thread. As for this thread, you know my response, quantity over quality will only get you so far. At some point we need to make a splash. Given potentially 25M to work with and really only needing to add defensive players I don't even know how you'd spend all that without making one splashy signing. When you go splash in FAgency , you overpay for talent you missed on in draft. The draft is the place to make a splash. Your math on all your stating sounds good, but suspect it doesnt translate exactly as you state. We have large number of players to add, just not 6 to 8. I am all in on your criteria, but dont think the Bears will do it that way. We are strapped because of the large number of players we need to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I can't see Wootton getting more than say 2.5M, same for Ratliff, so I think that's 5M tops. Tillman, if he's back, probably gets around the 5M Jennings got. So that still leaves them with 15M to spend. Only need ~2.2M for the draft and hopefully they can find 4-5 guy that can contribute. I just think when you have the money to make a splash, you make a splash, esp. when you have no impact player on the DL. Kinda like when Phil traded for Marshall, it wasn't a FA signing, but he still added a big salary when the need for an impact WR was clear. That's how I view the DL at the moment. I guess I'd settle for Melton as our big signing on the DL but I'm in love with Aaron Donald, and think he'll be there for the Bears, so throw that money and a little more at Bennett. I doubt Wootton gets any where close to 2.5mil/yr coming off hip surgery. He has never had a great year and last year playing on our bottom ranked defense did not help him at all. He will get attention from teams because they will see his versatility but will largely be viewed as either backup DE or if signs as a starter, he's keeping a seat warm until they draft their DE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I doubt Wootton gets any where close to 2.5mil/yr coming off hip surgery. He has never had a great year and last year playing on our bottom ranked defense did not help him at all. He will get attention from teams because they will see his versatility but will largely be viewed as either backup DE or if signs as a starter, he's keeping a seat warm until they draft their DE. Wootton had one great play that is worth millions, he ended the career of Brett Favre back in 2010! I think Wootton will sign for a deal closer to 3-4 million a year. I figured this: Wootton - 3.5 million, Tillman - 4.5 million, Ratliff - 3 million = 11 million 2.2 million for draft 2nd tier players: 4-5 million savings account: 3-5 million (injury settlements - replacement players) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Wootton had one great play that is worth millions, he ended the career of Brett Favre back in 2010! I think Wootton will sign for a deal closer to 3-4 million a year. I figured this:Wootton - 3.5 million, Tillman - 4.5 million, Ratliff - 3 million = 11 million2.2 million for draft2nd tier players: 4-5 millionsavings account: 3-5 million (injury settlements - replacement players)Damn Right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 When you go splash in FAgency , you overpay for talent you missed on in draft. The draft is the place to make a splash. Your math on all your stating sounds good, but suspect it doesnt translate exactly as you state. We have large number of players to add, just not 6 to 8. I am all in on your criteria, but dont think the Bears will do it that way. We are strapped because of the large number of players we need to add. The problem there is the draft is 2 months after the beginning of FA....Chances are the top guys will be gone at that point so you're left with leftovers to "overpay" for. You can "make a splash" in the draft but that doesn't change the fact that they potentially have the money to also make one in FA. I'd much rather see a guy like Bennett (and to a lesser extent Houston/Johnson) lined up next to Donald than a 2nd tier question mark like Everson Griffin or Willie Young who MIGHT be good players I believe I added more than 6-8 guys while also still paying Bennett big bucks. Without looking at it I believe I added 4 new DTs, 4 new DTs, 2 LBs, 2 safeties, and 2 CBs. That's 14 new guys to go with Jennings, Briggs, Paea, Bass, Conte, Frey, Hayden, Bostic, SMC, Washington, Greene and Derrick Martin. That's 26 players, don't you carry 52 players? Wootton had one great play that is worth millions, he ended the career of Brett Favre back in 2010! I think Wootton will sign for a deal closer to 3-4 million a year. I figured this: Wootton - 3.5 million, Tillman - 4.5 million, Ratliff - 3 million = 11 million 2.2 million for draft 2nd tier players: 4-5 million savings account: 3-5 million (injury settlements - replacement players) I think you're over valuing Wootton here. 3.5M puts him near the top 25 paid DEs Rob Ninkovich is the 23rd highest paid DE, he makes 3.5M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Looking at the cap hits on DEs 10M would give him the 8th highest cap hit....I know I already said this in another thread, but if you believe in PFF rankings that's fair considering he was the 7th ranked DE in the league in 2012 and the 5th ranked DE last year. The 10M number is just on the high end too, it wouldn't shock me to see him take a back loaded deal where his cap number is perhaps even as low as like 5M. His bros deal was only 2M last year but bumps up to 6 this year which very well could happen with Michael but with numbers closer to 5 and 10. Though I expect the first year number to be closer to 8, and I'm fine with that. Yeah. Profootballtalk.com ranked Bennett as the #2 available free agent. By itself, that doesn't mean much, but usually the guys PFT ranks in the top 10 are signed to significant contracts in 3 days. With the increased cap and few significant free agents, the starting price for Bennett will be 5 years 50+ with 30+ guaranteed. Do the Redskins have cap room this year? If so, time those numbers by 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The problem there is the draft is 2 months after the beginning of FA....Chances are the top guys will be gone at that point so you're left with leftovers to "overpay" for. You can "make a splash" in the draft but that doesn't change the fact that they potentially have the money to also make one in FA. I'd much rather see a guy like Bennett (and to a lesser extent Houston/Johnson) lined up next to Donald than a 2nd tier question mark like Everson Griffin or Willie Young who MIGHT be good players I believe I added more than 6-8 guys while also still paying Bennett big bucks. Without looking at it I believe I added 4 new DTs, 4 new DTs, 2 LBs, 2 safeties, and 2 CBs. That's 14 new guys to go with Jennings, Briggs, Paea, Bass, Conte, Frey, Hayden, Bostic, SMC, Washington, Greene and Derrick Martin. That's 26 players, don't you carry 52 players? I think you're over valuing Wootton here. 3.5M puts him near the top 25 paid DEs Rob Ninkovich is the 23rd highest paid DE, he makes 3.5M. I would love for you to be right, but we arent running a football team, we just have opinions. I am trying to state what I think Emery will do. Leftovers get vet min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I would love for you to be right, but we arent running a football team, we just have opinions. I am trying to state what I think Emery will do. Leftovers get vet min. And leftovers won't give you a championship defense. Not when Lance Briggs is you're only impact player on the front 7. I get why everyone is so emphatic about the whole vet min stuff since Phil made a couple steals last year but at the end of the day those guys will only get you so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 And leftovers won't give you a championship defense. Not when Lance Briggs is you're only impact player on the front 7. I get why everyone is so emphatic about the whole vet min stuff since Phil made a couple steals last year but at the end of the day those guys will only get you so far. I totally get and agree what you have to say, just dont think it plays out that way. Just trying to be real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I totally get and agree what you have to say, just dont think it plays out that way. Just trying to be real. Well I guess we'll see. Again, I think we're in a similar situation with the front 4 as we were with WR in Phils first year. Phil addressed it by going out and trading for Marshall and traded up to get his guy Jeffery in the draft. Neither were free agent deals but he still had to open the check book for Marshall. Could also bring up the Cutler deal this year.....I don't think Phils afraid to open the checkbook, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well I guess we'll see. Again, I think we're in a similar situation with the front 4 as we were with WR in Phils first year. Phil addressed it by going out and trading for Marshall and traded up to get his guy Jeffery in the draft. Neither were free agent deals but he still had to open the check book for Marshall. Could also bring up the Cutler deal this year.....I don't think Phils afraid to open the checkbook, what was different from your situation with the WRs is we now have a huge contract with Cutler, and changes their perspective on spending money. I still think we try to get Bennett, but if we can get him for 4 year 34 mil. were in play; if its the contract you suggested-no way. We are 5 days away from seeing what happens. The Cutler deal gives us flexibility,I just dont think the plan is to structure it that way and then take 10 out of it the first year to pay the difference that Bennett may bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 what was different from your situation with the WRs is we now have a huge contract with Cutler, and changes their perspective on spending money. I still think we try to get Bennett, but if we can get him for 4 year 34 mil. were in play; if its the contract you suggested-no way. We are 5 days away from seeing what happens. The Cutler deal gives us flexibility,I just dont think the plan is to structure it that way and then take 10 out of it the first year to pay the difference that Bennett may bring. Nothing changes is you have the money. And they do... No chance that's how low it goes. I think he'll get around 8M in year 1 but it'll increase every year after that which I don't think is a problem at all. Esp. when you factor in the cap going up another 7M next year and another 10 after that. PLUS the Bears cap number for next year right now is 82M. Nearly 60M under the cap. the 12M i suggested in year 2 is nothing. I've never said anything about taking 10M out, I said 2, which isn't shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Nothing changes is you have the money. And they do... No chance that's how low it goes. I think he'll get around 8M in year 1 but it'll increase every year after that which I don't think is a problem at all. Esp. when you factor in the cap going up another 7M next year and another 10 after that. PLUS the Bears cap number for next year right now is 82M. Nearly 60M under the cap. the 12M i suggested in year 2 is nothing. I've never said anything about taking 10M out, I said 2, which isn't shit. there not dipping into his contract for a measly 2 mil, I guarantee that . We will soon find out, your all in, I think the Bears are out with that contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 there not dipping into his contract for a measly 2 mil, I guarantee that . We will soon find out, your all in, I think the Bears are out with that contract. And why the hell wouldn't they dip into it for 2 mill? lol the way I see it the less they have to the better. There's literally no reason why they wouldn't. That makes zero sense. The money for Bennett is without question there...After I broke it down I'm surprised this is even a dispute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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