JA vs Emery

[lemonej]

Time on my hands looked up the drafts of our last 2 GMs which means our current and former. Found out that JA made 83 picks of which 18 are still in the league and of those 83, 10 made the Pro Bowl. Emery has made 12 picks, 9 are still in the league and with the team with 2 having made the Pro Bowl and if we consider Brandon Marshall as an acquisition then Emery edges out JA who had Urlacher already in the fold, drafted Tillman and Briggs, but acquired no one in his first two years that made the Pro Bowl. So when some of the media started to pound Emery for his defensive selections I had to take a closer look and when its all said and done I believe Emery will have more Pro Bowlers on both sides of the ball than JA.

[madlithuanian]

Good analysis.

 

Ithink Emery is better. But only time will tell. He's made some errors, but none as grievous as JA's at this point. His hits are really stellar. I think this draft is a little too one sided that we reallyneed D. In my opinion, next year will be the true test. At that point. We should be OK on both O and D, andthe draft should play out as normal as possible.

 

Time on my hands looked up the drafts of our last 2 GMs which means our current and former. Found out that JA made 83 picks of which 18 are still in the league and of those 83, 10 made the Pro Bowl. Emery has made 12 picks, 9 are still in the league and with the team with 2 having made the Pro Bowl and if we consider Brandon Marshall as an acquisition then Emery edges out JA who had Urlacher already in the fold, drafted Tillman and Briggs, but acquired no one in his first two years that made the Pro Bowl. So when some of the media started to pound Emery for his defensive selections I had to take a closer look and when its all said and done I believe Emery will have more Pro Bowlers on both sides of the ball than JA.

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Good analysis.

 

Ithink Emery is ageter. But only time will tell. He's made some errors, but none as grievous as JA's at this point. His hits are really stellar. I think this draft is a little too one sided that we reallyneed D. In my opinion, next year will be the true test. At that point. We should be OK on both O and D, andthe draft should play out as normal as possible.

I still wouldn't say we will be all D in this draft. I think we may see a RB, TE, and possibly a QB. I agree the first 2 out of 3 picks will most likely be DT and S though. We all have are sights on Donald, but if NYGs take him then its a crap shoot. I wouldnt be surprised if he took Ebron if he was there. As for S, i think we can get great value in Rd 2-3. For some reason, I have a feeling we take Will Sutton at DT.

1-Donald DT

2-Bucannon S

3-Niklas TE

4-Sims RB

5-Aikens CB

6-Logan Thomas QB

6-Morris ILB

['TD']

Emery was left in a crap situation when he came in. There was nothing but Forte and Cutler on offense. There was aging players on D, no replacements being groomed, and he was stuck with Lovie for a year. Off the top of my head, he has 3 players on O and 3 on D that he inherited from JA that are starters (Tillman, Briggs, and Forte being the only ones drafted by JA).

 

Since Tillman and Briggs were drafted in 2003, I think only Paea, Forte and Conte are left. I know some players have moved on to have decent careers, but that is just a horrible way to leave the team.

[Stinger226]

Time on my hands looked up the drafts of our last 2 GMs which means our current and former. Found out that JA made 83 picks of which 18 are still in the league and of those 83, 10 made the Pro Bowl. Emery has made 12 picks, 9 are still in the league and with the team with 2 having made the Pro Bowl and if we consider Brandon Marshall as an acquisition then Emery edges out JA who had Urlacher already in the fold, drafted Tillman and Briggs, but acquired no one in his first two years that made the Pro Bowl. So when some of the media started to pound Emery for his defensive selections I had to take a closer look and when its all said and done I believe Emery will have more Pro Bowlers on both sides of the ball than JA.

We dont have enough years for Emery to properly compare drafts. We know JA wasnt very good at drafting. The last 5 years are what usually makes up the core of a team and we have little or nothing to show for it. What I like about Emery is he sees a weakness and seems to go after it to fix it. He adds 4 OL starters last year and now we have a descent OL with prospects of being much better. He is attacking the pass rush and think he could be doing a huge up grade there.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

The last 5 years are what usually makes up the core of a team and we have little or nothing to show for it. What I like about Emery is he sees a weakness and seems to go after it to fix it. He adds 4 OL starters last year and now we have a descent OL with prospects of being much better. He is attacking the pass rush and think he could be doing a huge up grade there.

 

Playing Devil's Advocate how do you explain the draft/acquisition of Forte(2008), Cutler (09), Garza (05), Tillman (03), Paea (11), Briggs (03), Jennings (10), Conte (11), Peppers (10)and Wright (10)? All of whom were holdovers (and starters last year) from the Angelo/Lovie era.

 

But you're right, at this moment we can't compare the 'success' rate of drafts but we can compare the "last 5 years" to know that "nothing to show" isn't entirely accurate.

 

And just one fun little tidbit: There were 5 Pro Bowl selections in the 2011 season alone (source Wikipedia): Graham, Urlacher, Briggs, Forte and Tillman. All players drafted by JA.

[madlithuanian]

I don't mean it literally, but basically. Last draft was about the OL. This is about the D. Pick any of the 3 lines. All will probably be addressed, and some with multiple picks.

 

I don't know enough to guess at who we'll take. I know very little about college players.

 

We have 7 picks. I think at least 4 will be on D. To me, that is a defensive draft...

 

I still wouldn't say we will be all D in this draft. I think we may see a RB, TE, and possibly a QB. I agree the first 2 out of 3 picks will most likely be DT and S though. We all have are sights on Donald, but if NYGs take him then its a crap shoot. I wouldnt be surprised if he took Ebron if he was there. As for S, i think we can get great value in Rd 2-3. For some reason, I have a feeling we take Will Sutton at DT.

1-Donald DT

2-Bucannon S

3-Niklas TE

4-Sims RB

5-Aikens CB

6-Logan Thomas QB

6-Morris ILB

 

[madlithuanian]

Here's another fun tidbit. JA is no longer a Bear employee. All rejoice!

 

 

Playing Devil's Advocate how do you explain the draft/acquisition of Forte(2008), Cutler (09), Garza (05), Tillman (03), Paea (11), Briggs (03), Jennings (10), Conte (11), Peppers (10)and Wright (10)? All of whom were holdovers (and starters last year) from the Angelo/Lovie era.

 

But you're right, at this moment we can't compare the 'success' rate of drafts but we can compare the "last 5 years" to know that "nothing to show" isn't entirely accurate.

 

And just one fun little tidbit: There were 5 Pro Bowl selections in the 2011 season alone (source Wikipedia): Graham, Urlacher, Briggs, Forte and Tillman. All players drafted by JA.

 

[AZ54]

Playing Devil's Advocate how do you explain the draft/acquisition of Forte(2008), Cutler (09), Garza (05), Tillman (03), Paea (11), Briggs (03), Jennings (10), Conte (11), Peppers (10)and Wright (10)? All of whom were holdovers (and starters last year) from the Angelo/Lovie era.

 

But you're right, at this moment we can't compare the 'success' rate of drafts but we can compare the "last 5 years" to know that "nothing to show" isn't entirely accurate.

 

And just one fun little tidbit: There were 5 Pro Bowl selections in the 2011 season alone (source Wikipedia): Graham, Urlacher, Briggs, Forte and Tillman. All players drafted by JA.

 

For Wright he's no longer on the team and as far as I know is currently unemployed. He will find work but it won't be as a starter and he certainly was far from a highly sought after FA. For a 3rd Rd pick he should have been an adequate starter, he was not.

 

Conte is about 1 year behind Wright although I hope he turns it around. Again, as a 3rd Rd pick he should have been an adequate starter and at this point the majority of the board here doesn't even want to keep him around for depth.

 

Paea has not done nearly enough to justify his 2nd Rd selection. I hope he too turns it around but can no longer be optimistic due to the fact he always seems to be injured. Unless he has a big turnaround this is likely his last year on the team.

 

 

JA had some hits but it's the large amount of misses on players that didn't even turn out to be solid starters or depth players. Unless we had that great year with very few injuries, that lack of depth is what ended our seasons year after year under JA. We overpaid for Peppers in FA but I have no regrets as he played great for us his first 3 seasons. Garza was a great FA acquisition.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I don't mean it literally, but basically. Last draft was about the OL. This is about the D. Pick any of the 3 lines. All will probably be addressed, and some with multiple picks. I don't know enough to guess at who we'll take. I know very little about college players. We have 7 picks. I think at least 4 will be on D. To me, that is a defensive draft...

 

Yes, at least 4 out of 7 I agree will go D too. I don't think the offense will be completely ignored either. Unless we sign a FA TE or RB, I believe we will have to draft a quality one between rounds 3-6. If Forte or MBennett get hurt, we do not have a backup plan.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

Yes, at least 4 out of 7 I agree will go D too. I don't think the offense will be completely ignored either. Unless we sign a FA TE or RB, I believe we will have to draft a quality one between rounds 3-6. If Forte or MBennett get hurt, we do not have a backup plan.

I've said all along that I would like a stud RB drafted.

[madlithuanian]

I want a battering ram!

 

I've said all along that I would like a stud RB drafted.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I want a battering ram!

 

Yes I agree. Someone along the lines of MJD with North/South running capabilities.

 

I'd like to see the Ford kid work out but recall seeing he's not really a direct line runner.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Conte is about 1 year behind Wright although I hope he turns it around. Again, as a 3rd Rd pick he should have been an adequate starter and at this point the majority of the board here doesn't even want to keep him around for depth.

 

 

Funny, the other thread that Terra started specifically about Conte seems to indicate otherwise.

[CrackerDog]

There's no question JA ignored the OL for basically his entire tenure here. Hell, that's something Jason and I agree on so it must be an absolute truth. And that glaring weakness on the team was addressed by Emery at his first opportunity, rather well, I think we all agree.

 

It may be too early to judge one vs. the other on drafts but there are good early signs.

[Daventry]

The wins and losses will tell the tale, but I feel confident in Emery...we will see.

 

As far as Conte and Wright go, both I feel need more time to see, and I hope Conte is given every opportunity to compete...I still think he has ability and could be a a quality safety.

[Mongo3451]

There's no question JA ignored the OL for basically his entire tenure here. Hell, that's something Jason and I agree on so it must be an absolute truth. And that glaring weakness on the team was addressed by Emery at his first opportunity, rather well, I think we all agree.

 

It may be too early to judge one vs. the other on drafts but there are good early signs.

You two agreeing has about the same value as a farting competition. That being said, I agree...

[BearFan2000]

Not to defend Jerry, because I do think Emery seems thus far to be doing a better job. It's hard to compare Jerry's draft picks to Emery's at this point. Emery is getting set for his 3rd draft as Bears GM. While we have larger sample size for Jerry and we will now be 3 drafts removed from him being our GM. His first Draft as Bears GM was 2002 we are now 12 years removed from that class. The further removed a GM is from his time with a team the higher the percentage of players that he drafted are likely to no longer be in the league still. While Emery's first draft picks are still young players that are are still on their rookie deals. Only time will tell how Emery's drafting will hold up. If I remember right Jerry seemed pretty good early on, it was more the collective failures over his time here that made it necessary to replace him. I like what he's done so far, and we'll see what he does in the draft.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Not to defend Jerry, because I do think Emery seems thus far to be doing a better job. It's hard to compare Jerry's draft picks to Emery's at this point.ry is getting set for his 3rd draft as Bears GM. While we have larger sample size for Jerry and we will now be 3 drafts removed from him being our GM. His first Draft as Bears GM was 2002 we are now 12 years removed from that class. The further removed a GM is from his time with a team the higher the percentage of players that he drafted are likely to no longer be in the league still. While Emery's first draft picks are still young players that are are still on their rookie deals. Only time will tell how Emery's drafting will hold up. If I remember right Jerry seemed pretty good early on, it was more the collective failures over his time here that made it necessary to replace him. I like what he's done so far, and we'll see what he does in the draft.

What I feel happened with JA and his drafting was Lovie and the coaching, and some bad luck. I never seen player development. How many years did it take before Lovie specifically worked with Daniel Mannining? How many of their picks were lost to injury...Dvorecek comes to mind.

To become sucessful, you have to hit on all aspects. Selecting the right person, positions to groom, having a program to develop, and so on. The player development seemed to lack previously and my thought was always Lovie didnt like rookies.

[lemonej]

What I should have highlighted is JA's first 2 drafts vs Emery's first 2. 12 picks for Emery and 20 for JA. if we reviewed the picks side by side it may not be pretty for both but for fun this was JA's first 2 hauls.

 

2002................................2003----------------------2012-----------------------2013

1.Marc Colombo..................1.Michael Haynes-------1.Shea McClellin.............1. Kyle Long

 

2.Roe Williams....................2.Rex Grossman.-------2. Alshon Jeffrey.............2. Jon Bostic

 

3. Terrence Metcalf..............3.Charles Tillman-------3. Brandon Hardin..........3. Khaseem Greene

 

4. Alex Brown.....................4. Lance Briggs---------4. Evan Rodriguez...........4. Jordon Mills

 

5. Bobby Gray.....................5. Todd Johnson-------5. Isaiah Frey..................5. Cornelius Washington

 

6. Bryan Knight...................6. Ian Scott------------6. Greg McCoy.................6. Marques Wilson

 

7. Jamin Elliott....................7. Bobby Wade

 

8. Bryan Fletcher.................8. Justin Gage

 

9. .....................................9. Tron LaFavor

 

10. ...................................10. Joe Odom

 

11. ...................................11. Brock Forsey

 

12. ...................................12. Bryan Anderson

 

 

 

Now looking at both of these guys 1st 2 drafts side by side and if we factor in the FA acquisitions what is the assessment? In JA's first 2 offseasons there wasn't the impact acquisitions like Emery has done to enhance his draft. Brandon Marshall trade last season plus Bushrod, Slaus?, Bennett and Trestman wins Emery the first year. In year 2 with Emery adding Allen, Houston and young plus resigning several key vets without making 1 pick tells me he has a leg up in the 2nd year.

 

 

 

[Stinger226]

What I should have highlighted is JA's first 2 drafts vs Emery's first 2. 12 picks for Emery and 20 for JA. if we reviewed the picks side by side it may not be pretty for both but for fun this was JA's first 2 hauls.

 

2002................................2003----------------------2012-----------------------2013

1.Marc Colombo..................1.Michael Haynes-------1.Shea McClellin.............1. Kyle Long

 

2.Roe Williams....................2.Rex Grossman.-------2. Alshon Jeffrey.............2. Jon Bostic

 

3. Terrence Metcalf..............3.Charles Tillman-------3. Brandon Hardin..........3. Khaseem Greene

 

4. Alex Brown.....................4. Lance Briggs---------4. Evan Rodriguez...........4. Jordon Mills

 

5. Bobby Gray.....................5. Todd Johnson-------5. Isaiah Frey..................5. Cornelius Washington

 

6. Bryan Knight...................6. Ian Scott------------6. Greg McCoy.................6. Marques Wilson

 

7. Jamin Elliott....................7. Bobby Wade

 

8. Bryan Fletcher.................8. Justin Gage

 

9. .....................................9. Tron LaFavor

 

10. ...................................10. Joe Odom

 

11. ...................................11. Brock Forsey

 

12. ...................................12. Bryan Anderson

 

 

 

Now looking at both of these guys 1st 2 drafts side by side and if we factor in the FA acquisitions what is the assessment? In JA's first 2 offseasons there wasn't the impact acquisitions like Emery has done to enhance his draft. Brandon Marshall trade last season plus Bushrod, Slaus?, Bennett and Trestman wins Emery the first year. In year 2 with Emery adding Allen, Houston and young plus resigning several key vets without making 1 pick tells me he has a leg up in the 2nd year.

Emery ,I think will end up being better at the GM position but time will tell with a better amount of data to use. I like the fact Emery attacks positions of need with a vengeance. OL last year, WRs over his tenure and now DE position. So far so good.

[lemonej]

I'm ol' sckool now so bare with me. He is very similar to Jim Finks the main architect of the 85 team who believed in building upfront first and then you address the outside positions. Finks also helped build the Vikings strong teams of the 70's. Think about his first pick and the think icon Walter Payton. Thats Papa Bear territory. and that same draft we got Mike Hartenstine, Revie Sorey, Viril Livers and in RD 12 yes RD 12! Doug Plank and in RD 17 Roland Harper. So back in the day several of the current undrafted FAs would have been draft picks. Those days are over especially when fans like this board can access all kinds of info about players. I used to get the Chgo Sun Times, Trib and Chicago American/Today remembering one of the head sports writers there named Rick Talley. Again I'm Ol' Skool and also remember when Brent Musberger worked here on channel 2 and 5. He actually did the city championship HS games as a broadcaster and after the game was over I took my Brontosaurus out for a walk lol.